[Vision2020] Draft Ordinance Banning Smoking in Bars

[bear at moscow.com]

Tom,

I strongly concur with the kudos for Saundra! But how dare you compare one
of our esteemed council members with the Ayotollah! It gives Ayotollah's a
bad name!  *S*




__________________________________________________________________________
> Excellent and extremely thought-provoking, Saundra.

> Saundra stated:
> "Oh, and to offer rebuttal, I certainly hope bar & tavern owners will take
> a look at exactly where banishing smokers to more than 20 feet from the
> door will put their customers."
>
> During the coldest of winter months, twenty feet from any door will place
> these customers in the snow.
>
> Question:  Since the Ayotollah Lambert wants to extend the reach of this
> ordinance to include private clubs, will the owners of these private
> clubs, owners that paid lots and lots of their own hard-earned money to
> purchase these private clubs, be restricted to those same snow banks?
>
> Book 'em, Dano!
>
> Side bar:  If this ordinance should go into effect, I offer . . .
>
> TEN DOLLARS to anybody that provides me a photograph of any member of our
> city council or city staff violating the ordinance, FIFTEEN DOLLARS if it
> is Bill Lambert.
>
> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
>> Most striking to me was listening to the two council members become
>> positively drunk with power!  As suspected, they aren't happy with just
>> banning smoking in bars, they also want to ban smoking in private clubs
>> to
>> provide a level playing field.  <snort>  Public events in public parks,
>> and
>> public parks,  were mentioned, and Lambert actually said he'd like to
>> see
>> smoking banned everywhere but in private homes.
>>
>> Of course, their interest in sticking their busy noses into private
>> clubs
>> to
>> "level the playing field" makes the point no one on the that side of the
>> issue wants to admit:  that there are enough adults interested in
>> engaging
>> in LAWFUL adult activities (smoking & drinking) that they fear passing
>> their
>> ordinance *will* hurt local businesses.  I doubt, though, either of them
>> thought of that as their comments were stunningly uneducated and
>> uninformed.
>>
>> That concern also conflicts with Lambert's opinion (an opinion, BTW,
>> that's
>> been proven wrong with studies time & again) that passing this ordinance
>> will *increase* business for bars.  One thing I guess we can count on
>> from
>> them is inconsistency  :-)  Perhaps Lambert should have a chat with
>> Pullman
>> bar owners to find out the reality rather than trying to convince others
>> of
>> the validity of his wishful thinking.  It seems that in Pullman, as in
>> other
>> locales where smoking bans in bars have been passed, those enticing
>> promises
>> from non-smokers never quite materialize to increase the business lost
>> by
>> excluding smokers.
>>
>> Indeed, some studies identify bars and taverns as ***more than twice as
>> likely*** to suffer adverse revenue effects from smoking bans than other
>> venues.  Interesting, isn't it, that factoid hasn't been disclosed in
>> the
>> current discussion?  It's one thing to have an anti-smoking agenda, but
>> it's
>> a completely different thing to be dishonest about the realistic
>> anticipated
>> effects on our local businesses, IMHO.  But, perhaps that's another part
>> of
>> the agenda???  One person during the Admin Committee meeting mentioned
>> how
>> well the ban has worked in Ireland -- I suspect the owners of the 400+
>> small-town pubs that went belly-up following the ban might dispute his
>> assessment.
>>
>> So.  What's next?  What other lawful activities that offend their
>> sensibilities will they want to legislate out of existence?
>>
>> Let's see . . . obesity is either the #1 or #2 cause of premature death
>> in
>> the US depending on what study you read.  Perhaps we should move next to
>> make it illegal to sell or serve high calorie or high fat foods to those
>> who
>> are obese?
>>
>> And, let's not forget that red meat consumption can cause/contribute to
>> heart disease as well as hunger in this nation & around the world.
>> Perhaps
>> we should restrict consumption to private homes as well -- think of the
>> health cost savings!
>>
>> And, frankly, I think Lambert may be onto something, although not with
>> respect to smoking but rather to alcohol.  Due to the serious public
>> safety
>> & health risks of excess alcohol consumption, let's restrict consumption
>> to
>> private homes.
>>
>> In any case, I find it incredibly disturbing that the Admin Committee is
>> so
>> gung-ho about this -- increasing Big Government restrictions on the
>> hospitality industry.  One might safely interpret their interest as
>> either
>> not trusting the market *or* wanting to force their social views on the
>> rest
>> of us to the detriment of local small business owners.  But, I guess
>> that
>> shouldn't be surprising because that's certainly not the first time
>> we've
>> see this kind of thing from this particular council, is it?
>>
>> The "second-hand smoke is bad for employees" red herring is particularly
>> offensive given that they don't give a rip about making ***meaningful***
>> changes (you know, inconveniences like living wages, health insurance,
>> etc)
>> for all local workers.  When it comes to those significant issues, they
>> are
>> consistently unwilling to put their money where their mouths are . . .
>> but
>> I
>> guess their interest in this smoking ban just goes to show that their
>> concerns about the financial implications of laws they want is limited
>> to
>> only certain kinds of businesses -- they are quite willing jeopardize
>> bar
>> &
>> tavern owners and retail businesses whole bending over backwards to
>> accommodate other agendas.
>>
>> I'm with you, Wayne -- even though I don't have a dog in this fight, I'm
>> definitely going to remember the punch-drunk power comments that have
>> been
>> made thus far at the next election, and I'll continue to listen to the
>> discussion for more red flags about the scary interest of some in the
>> council to throw some of our local businesses & residents under the bus.
>>
>> Oh, and to offer rebuttal, I certainly hope bar & tavern owners will
>> take
>> a
>> look at exactly where banishing smokers to more than 20 feet from the
>> door
>> will put their customers.  While 20 feet may work very well for some
>> locations, I think it's going to be problematic for others.  I'd like to
>> see
>> Lambert get off ***his*** "duff" to figure it out for all of us  :-)
>> I'd
>> certainly be happy to donate a stick of chalk or some temporary paint to
>> see
>> him do the legwork  :-)
>>
>> And, for the Corner Club, that 20 feet had better NOT include the
>> parking
>> lot or alley . . . exiling law-abiding smokers to an area where they can
>> --
>> literally -- be killed with no consequences is highly irresponsible.  In
>> Memory of Kristian Nelson.
>>
>>
>>
>> Saundra Lund
>> Moscow, ID
>>
>> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to
>> do
>> nothing.
>> ~ Edmund Burke
>>
>> ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2009 through life
>> plus
>> 70 years, Saundra Lund.  Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce
>> outside
>> the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of the
>> author.*****
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
>> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
>> On Behalf Of bear at moscow.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:47 PM
>> To: Tom Hansen
>> Cc: Moscow Vision 2020
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Draft Ordinance Banning Smoking in Bars
>>
>>
>> Well Tom, it looks like John Weber (or I should say, uh, his opposition)
>> has a great slogan for his campaign as mayor: " Time Out, time out, time
>> out, we can't have a debate" !  He'll make a great mayor!
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --------------------------
>>
>>> Greetings Visionaires -
>>>
>>> As promised, here it is . . .
>>>
>>> The Administrative Commitee meeting of June 22, 2009 concerning a draft
>>> ordinance banning smoking in bars..
>>>
>>> http://www.MoscowCares.com/062209_Admin_PropOrdSmokeBan.htm
>>>
>>> For those of you that are simply too eager to know the outcome of this
>>> agenda item . . . no recommendation has been prepared by this
>>> committee.
>>> You (are you listening, Bear?) will be provided another opportunity to
>>> voice your pleasure (or lack thereof) concerning this proposed
>>> ordinance
>>> at the Administrative Committee's meeting on July 13, 2009.
>>>
>>> As mentioned earlier, count the utterings, mutterings, and mumbles of
>>> the
>>> word "uh" originating from John Weber, Administrative Committee Chair
>>> and
>>> candidate for Mayor of Moscow.
>>>
>>> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>>>
>>> Tom Hansen
>>> Moscow, Idaho
>>>
>>>
>>> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to
>>> change
>>> and the Realist adjusts his sails."
>>>
>>> - Unknown
>>>
>>>
>>> =======================================================
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>>>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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>>>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> =======================================================
>>>
>>
>>
>> =======================================================
>>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>                http://www.fsr.net
>>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> =======================================================
>>
>>
>
>
> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change
> and the Realist adjusts his sails."
>
> - Unknown
>
>
>