[Vision2020] Hitler a Socialist

[lfalen]

Not every thing in wilipedia is true. It is monitored and anyone can post to it.
National Socialist was the name of the party. I do not know how anyone can say it was not socialist. Yes Germany was eventually at war  with Russia and Hitler used hatred of communism as a way to raise money. They were both totalitarian regimes that controlled the economy. Their methods were some what different. To try and pass off the Nazis as being on the right is to engage in orwellian newspeak. If you carried the right wing to its ultimate extreme, it would be anarchy, not totalitarian government. That is where the extremes of socialism end up.
Roger
-----Original message-----
From: Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 12:50:33 -0700
To: lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com,  vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Hitler a Socialist

> Moore does not support the 9/11 conspiracy theory. Did you see
> Fahrenheit 911? Also, Hitler was at war with Russia. And there is a
> big difference between Hitler's facism and Stalin's communism. Look at
> the Wikipedia "Nazi Party" website:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Party
> 
> Here are some quotes:
> 
> "The Nazi Party is generally described as being at the extreme or far
> right of the left-right political axis; however in some two
> dimensional models based on economic parameters, such as the political
> compass, the Nazi Party is categorized as neither left nor right wing
> but instead extremely socially authoritarian."
> 
> "Unlike Drexler and other party members, Hitler was less interested in
> the "socialist" aspect of "national socialism" beyond moving Social
> Welfare administration from the Church to the State. Himself of
> provincial lower-middle-class origins, he disliked the mass working
> class of the big cities, and had no sympathy with the notions of
> attacking private property or the business class (which some early
> Nazis espoused)."
> 
> On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 11:51 AM, lfalen<lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
> > Joe
> > Your reference says that it is not found. A left winger who who endorses the 9/11 conspiracy is Michael Moore- Fahrenheit 9/11. There was next to no deference between the National Socialism of Germany and the Communism of Russia. Hitler played on the hatred of communism in order to get the support of money interests. You can find this on a google search. Again we should all deplore the rise of hate crimes no matter where it comes from and that is not exclusively from the right.
> > Roger
> > -----Original message-----
> > From: Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com
> > Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:07:37 -0700
> > To: lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Hitler a Socialist
> >
> >> Roger,
> >>
> >> A few more things.
> >>
> >> Didn't we get on to the issue about Hitler because of a claim that I
> >> made that James von Brunn, the Holocaust museum shooter, was a
> >> right-winger? Interesting, Rush and others are now trying to suggest
> >> that he is a leftist. Here is a nice response, which considers and
> >> then refutes the claim:
> >>
> >> http://aidanmaconachyblog.blogspot.com/2009/06/james-von-brunn-leftist-according-to.html
> >>
> >> In short, Brunn spread the same rumors about Obama's lack of US
> >> citizenship that No Weatherman was spreading prior to the election; he
> >> was affiliated with the British National Party, "a far-right and
> >> whites-only political party in the United Kingdom" (Wikipedia); in
> >> addition to being against Jews he was also rabidly anti-Communist,
> >> just like Hitler. The fact is Brunn bought the anti-government
> >> rhetoric the right has been spreading since the 1994 elections. If you
> >> can find one belief that he had which is explicitly endorsed by a
> >> politician from the left I'd like to know. Above I've noted some that
> >> have been explicitly endorsed by the right.
> >>
> >> Again, I'm not blaming the right for Brunn's murder. That goes on his
> >> record and no one else's. I just think that the right wing rhetoric is
> >> one reason behind the recent rise in hate crimes across the country
> >> and I think they should tone it down.
> >>
> >> When I asked for examples of left-wing rhetoric that is equally
> >> harmful, all Crabtree could come up with is an example from the
> >> interview show, Fresh Air, and a few quotes from NPR correspondent
> >> Nina Totenberg. I doubt that the Totenberg quotes were made on a news
> >> program, like the examples from the right noted in the NY Times
> >> editorials I've posted over the last few days, but Crabtree never said
> >> where they came from. Still waiting for that information or other
> >> examples illustrating that news coverage from the left is anywhere
> >> near as biased as Fox News.
> >>
> >> The comments from Fox News anchor Shepard Smith, quoted in the Frank
> >> Rich essay I posted this morning, are interesting, too, and similar to
> >> some of the points I have been making. So if you only trust right-wing
> >> sources, that might convince you.
> >>
> >> Joe Campbell
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 12:54 PM, Joe Campbell<philosopher.joe at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > My comments follow Roger’s comments:
> >> >
> >> > “Go to Google and type in Hitler National Socialist. There are 3,640,000 hits.”
> >> >
> >> > Go to Google and type “Hitler conservative” and you get 5,360,000
> >> > hits. Thus, by your own standards, Hitler was a conservative. No doubt
> >> > you’ll change the standards since you didn’t get the result you
> >> > wanted.
> >> >
> >> > You claim the Right stands for “free markets, limited government,
> >> > individual rights, free speech, and the right to worship as you chose
> >> > or not to do so at all.” I’m for all of this. I guess I’m a member of
> >> > the right, too!
> >> >
> >> > “I may have been mistaken on your pervious post. I thought that you
> >> > were accusing me of denying the holocaust and defending slavery. but
> >> > it still seems that you place most conservatives in that boat. Your
> >> > extrapolation from being a conservative to being a holocaust denier is
> >> > a bit of a stretch.”
> >> >
> >> > I made this clear in post yesterday when I explicitly stated that I do
> >> > not think that all conservatives are holocaust deniers. But you read
> >> > what you want and if it doesn’t fit your view of the world you seem to
> >> > ignore it. Not much I can do about that.
> >> >
> >> > “I hope that this is not an example of your logic in class.”
> >> >
> >> > It is irresponsible of you to criticize my job performance since you
> >> > have absolutely no knowledge of it and it concerns my own personal
> >> > welfare and the welfare of my family. There was a day when folks
> >> > didn't talk about others jobs or families when discussing politics but
> >> > I guess there is no room for that in brand of conservatism.
> >> >
> >> > Joe Campbell
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 11:07 AM, lfalen<lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
> >> >> Sunil
> >> >> Go to Google and type in  Hitler National Socialist. There are 3,640,000 hits. Here is an excerpt from just one.
> >> >> Hitler joined the National Socialist Party in 1919 and became the propaganda Boss. They listed 25 points. among them is the statement "For modern society a colossus with feet of clay, we shall create an unprecedented centralization that will unite all powers in the hands of the government. We shall create a hierarchical constitution, which will methodically govern all movements of individuals."
> >> >> You can read all most any documentary on Hiter and find the same information about National Socialism. I am amassed at your lack of historical knowledge.
> >> >> Roger
> >> >> Note to Joe
> >> >> This does not sound like anything close to what the  Right stands for. Fiscal conservatives/Libertarians believe in free markets, limited government, individual rights, free speech,  and the right to worship as you chose or not to do so at all.
> >> >> The left advocate big government with government control over vast areas of human endeavor. Sorry Joe, Hiter is your baby.
> >> >> I may have been mistaken on your pervious post. I thought that you were accusing me of denying the holocaust and defending slavery. but it still seems that you place most conservatives in that boat. Your extrapolation from being a conservative to being a holocaust denier is a bit of a stretch. I hope that this is not an example of your logic in class.
> >> >> You ask do I know about Wilson's book. Yes I do, but have not read it.  My view is the same as Lincoln's " When ever I hear someone say slavery is not so bad, I have the urge to ask him, How would you like to be in that place".
> >> >> As for the more rabid side of the religious right I tend  to agree with Goldwater " Someone should kick Falwell in the ass"
> >> >>
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