[Vision2020] NYTimes: The Big Hate
Joe Campbell
philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Sun Jun 14 13:16:39 PDT 2009
This all begs the question. For instance, some of these points are
just the very ones I'm making!
Joe Campbell
On Jun 14, 2009, at 10:18 AM, "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
wrote:
> Another fine example of say anything. Particularly funny in a post
> where you ask me for examples to make my point. Here are a few:
>
>
> Obama's Muslim Outreach Bears Fruit in Lebanon's Elections -- Maybe
> Iran Too!
>
> what a joke!
>
> "Caring" Obama Has Osama on the Run
>
> As shown by?
>
>
> Cheney-Palin Style of Patriotism Just "Belligerent and Defensive
> Chauvinism"
>
> Times Watch Quotes of Note -- Obama Just "Trying to Bring People
> Together," but GOP Dredges Up "Race Wars"
>
>
> Is the Obama Economic Stimulus Taking Effect? NYT Optimistic
>
> Nearly 10% unemployment, what effect might they be referring to?
>
>
> Blaming Conservative Media for Killings, Take Two
>
> And last but far from the least:
>
>
> THE PUBLIC EDITOR; Is The New York Times a Liberal Newspaper?
>
> By DANIEL OKRENT
>
> Published: Sunday, July 25, 2004
>
> OF course it is.
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/25/opinion/the-public-editor-is-the-new-york-times-a-liberal-newspaper.html
>
>
>
> Believe me, I could do this all day long. Now that I have provided
> the example(s) that you requested how about you back up your stupid
> claim of my saying that "slavery wasn't so bad" or that the
> holocaust never happened? Since you claim that I've done it "often"
> this should be easy for you.
>
> g
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joe Campbell
> To: g. crabtree
> Cc: Saundra Lund ; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 8:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] NYTimes: The Big Hate
>
> This is precisely why I'm disagreeing with Paul. Folks like you have
> got him convinced that the NY Times is as bad as Fox News. What a
> joke!
>
> And I'm not sure what is wrong with the quotes below. In fact by
> making the claim that "the NY Times does it too" -- your favorite
> form of "criticism" -- you are agreeing with the very claims you
> quote; you're just extending the criticism (without evidence) to
> other news organizations.
>
> Of course, how else are you going to get someone to believe that
> slavery wasn't so bad -- which is one fringe claim you defended --
> or that the holocaust never happened etc. unless you poison the
> well? Which brings us back to my original point.
>
> Here are two things you could do to make your point. Otherwise it is
> just a bunch of unsupported rhetoric and you'll have proven my point.
>
> First, you can come up with explicit examples in which the NY Times
> shows bias, like the ones about Fox News noted in the article. Don't
> just say they are biased give examples of bias like the ones noted
> below.
>
> Second, you can explain to me what the difference is between
> Wilson's revisionism about US slavery -- which you've defended often
> -- and the denial of the holocaust, other than degree? How are they
> both not offensive, radical viewpoints lacking any rational support
> whatsoever? You defended the one; what could keep you from defending
> the other?
>
> Joe Campbell
>
> On Jun 13, 2009, at 7:29 PM, "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I'd have thought that it should go without saying (considering the
>> respondent and the response, my mistake) that my tongue was
>> slightly in cheek but, having said that, what conclusion should a
>> conservative reach with remarks such as...
>>
>> "...to an even greater extent, right-wing extremism is being
>> systematically fed by the conservative media and political
>> establishment."
>>
>> and
>>
>> "...Fox News and the R.N.C. haven’t directly incited violence, des
>> pite Bill O’Reilly’s declarations that “some” called
>> Dr. Tiller “Tiller the Baby Killer," (wasn't that what the left ca
>> lled US troops freshly returned from Vietnam?) that he had “blood
>> on his hands,” and that he was a “guy operating a death mill.”
>> But they have gone out of their way to provide a platform for cons
>> piracy theories and apocalyptic rhetoric..."
>>
>> As though MSNBC and the New York Times hasn't. Responsibility is
>> nowhere to be found. Mr. Rumelhart is correct all news comes from a
>> point of view. FOX no less nor anymore than any other. To castigate
>> conservatives for the random acts of a couple of lone nut cakes is
>> no different than were those on the right to hold the wacky left
>> responsible for the attacks of 9/11. But then again the rule has
>> always been "it's all good from the left and the right should fall
>> in line (like the "respectable conservative friends") or shut up
>> and die. Sorry I don't get on board.
>>
>> Oh, and by the way, for what should I be holding myself
>> accountable? I'd love to see your examples of my "legitimizing
>> wackos and fringe freaks."
>>
>> g
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Saundra Lund
>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 12:19 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] NYTimes: The Big Hate
>>
>> That’s just plain silly – that’s not what the article said at
>> all. Leave it to Mr. Crabtree to be completely disingenuous in th
>> e hope that folks won’t take the time to read the op-ed piece and
>> will instead have his inane remarks stuck in their heads as accurate.
>>
>>
>> The op-ed piece is actually quite good because it talks about
>> <gasp> responsibility. Mr. Crabtree is all for responsibility
>> except when it means holding himself accountable. On a much
>> smaller scale, of course, Mr. Crabtree is a prime example of the
>> point of the op-ed piece: legitimizing wackos & fringe freaks --
>> be they the radical right or the radical left -- is dangerous.
>>
>>
>> Sadly, the currently leaderless Party of No seems to have forgotten
>> this factoid, which perhaps is a significant factor for why
>> they are currently leaderless. Certainly, my respectable
>> conservative friends for the most part have bailed from the GOP in
>> large part because of the current politics of desperation of “embr
>> acing the fringe freaks” while abandoning the ideals the party has
>> stood for. Some are still hanging in there hoping & working for
>> change, and for the sake of this nation, I hope they are successf
>> ul and that it happens soon. The hate- and fear-mongering path th
>> e party has sold out to is disgraceful and dangerous.
>>
>>
>>
>> Saundra Lund
>>
>> Moscow, ID
>>
>>
>> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people
>> to do nothing.
>>
>> ~ Edmund Burke
>>
>>
>> ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2009 through
>> life plus 70 years, Saundra Lund. Do not copy, forward, excerpt,
>> or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum without the express
>> written permission of the author.*****
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
>> ] On Behalf Of g. crabtree
>> Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 11:43 AM
>> To: Joe Campbell; Moscow Vision 2020
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] NYTimes: The Big Hate
>>
>>
>> Okey Dokey, you and Krugman believe that people who watch FOX news,
>> occasionally listen to Limbaugh, Beck, or Hannity, are a recently
>> returned vet, a conservative or a RNC member are murderous
>> terrorists. Whats your plan for dealing with this calamity? Lets
>> hear about how you and all of the forces of truth and light plan on
>> dealing with this unfortunate turn of events. This ought to be a
>> hoot!
>>
>>
>> g
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: Joe Campbell
>>
>> To: Moscow Vision 2020
>>
>> Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 7:51 AM
>>
>> Subject: [Vision2020] NYTimes: The Big Hate
>>
>>
>> From The New York Times:
>>
>> OP-ED COLUMNIST: The Big Hate
>>
>> By PAUL KRUGMAN
>>
>>
>>
>> The rise of right-wing extremism is being systematically fed by the
>> conservative media and political establishment....
>>
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/12/opinion/12krugman.html
>>
>> Get The New York Times on your iPhone for free by visiting http://nytimes.com/iphoneinstaller
>>
>>
>>
>> Joe Campbell
>>
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