[Vision2020] NYTimes: The Big Hate

Sun Jun 14 10:18:52 PDT 2009

Another fine example of say anything. Particularly funny in a post where you ask me for examples to make my point. Here are a few:

Obama's Muslim Outreach Bears Fruit in Lebanon's Elections -- Maybe Iran Too!

what a joke!

"Caring" Obama Has Osama on the Run

As shown by?

Cheney-Palin Style of Patriotism Just "Belligerent and Defensive Chauvinism"

Times Watch Quotes of Note -- Obama Just "Trying to Bring People Together," but GOP Dredges Up "Race Wars"

Is the Obama Economic Stimulus Taking Effect? NYT Optimistic

Nearly 10% unemployment, what effect might they be referring to?

Blaming Conservative Media for Killings, Take Two

And last but far from the least:

THE PUBLIC EDITOR; Is The New York Times a Liberal Newspaper?
By DANIEL OKRENT
Published: Sunday, July 25, 2004
OF course it is.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/25/opinion/the-public-editor-is-the-new-york-times-a-liberal-newspaper.html

Believe me, I could do this all day long. Now that I have provided the example(s) that you requested how about you back up your stupid claim of my saying that "slavery wasn't so bad" or that the holocaust never happened? Since you claim that I've done it "often" this should be easy for you.

g
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Joe Campbell 
  To: g. crabtree 
  Cc: Saundra Lund ; <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
  Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 8:34 PM
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] NYTimes: The Big Hate

  This is precisely why I'm disagreeing with Paul. Folks like you have got him convinced that the NY Times is as bad as Fox News. What a joke! 

  And I'm not sure what is wrong with the quotes below. In fact by making the claim that "the NY Times does it too" -- your favorite form of "criticism" -- you are agreeing with the very claims you quote; you're just extending the criticism (without evidence) to other news organizations.

  Of course, how else are you going to get someone to believe that slavery wasn't so bad -- which is one fringe claim you defended -- or that the holocaust never happened etc. unless you poison the well? Which brings us back to my original point.

  Here are two things you could do to make your point. Otherwise it is just a bunch of unsupported rhetoric and you'll have proven my point.

  First, you can come up with explicit examples in which the NY Times shows bias, like the ones about Fox News noted in the article. Don't just say they are biased give examples of bias like the ones noted below.

  Second, you can explain to me what the difference is between Wilson's revisionism about US slavery -- which you've defended often -- and the denial of the holocaust, other than degree? How are they both not offensive, radical viewpoints lacking any rational support whatsoever? You defended the one; what could keep you from defending the other?    

  Joe Campbell

  On Jun 13, 2009, at 7:29 PM, "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:

    I'd have thought that it should go without saying (considering the respondent and the response, my mistake) that my tongue was slightly in cheek but, having said that,  what conclusion should a conservative reach with remarks such as...

    "...to an even greater extent, right-wing extremism is being systematically fed by the conservative media and political establishment."

    and

    "...Fox News and the R.N.C. haven’t directly incited violence, despite Bill O’Reilly’s declarations that “some” called Dr. Tiller “Tiller the Baby Killer," (wasn't that what the left called US troops freshly returned from Vietnam?) that he had “blood on his hands,” and that he was a “guy operating a death mill.” But they have gone out of their way to provide a platform for conspiracy theories and apocalyptic rhetoric..."

    As though MSNBC and the New York Times hasn't. Responsibility is nowhere to be found. Mr. Rumelhart is correct all news comes from a point of view. FOX no less nor anymore than any other. To castigate conservatives for the random acts of a couple of lone nut cakes is no different than were  those on the right to hold the wacky left responsible for the attacks of 9/11. But then again the rule has always been "it's all good from the left and the right should fall in line (like the "respectable conservative friends") or shut up and die. Sorry I don't get on board.

    Oh, and by the way, for what should I be holding myself accountable? I'd love to see your examples of my "legitimizing wackos and fringe freaks."

    g

      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Saundra Lund 
      To: vision2020 at moscow.com 
      Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 12:19 PM
      Subject: Re: [Vision2020] NYTimes: The Big Hate

      That’s just plain silly – that’s not what the article said at all.  Leave it to Mr. Crabtree to be completely disingenuous in the hope that folks won’t take the time to read the op-ed piece and will instead have his inane remarks stuck in their heads as accurate. 

      The op-ed piece is actually quite good because it talks about <gasp> responsibility.  Mr. Crabtree is all for responsibility except when it means holding himself accountable.  On a much smaller scale, of course, Mr. Crabtree is a prime example of the point of the op-ed piece:  legitimizing wackos & fringe freaks -- be they the radical right or the radical left -- is dangerous.

      Sadly, the currently leaderless Party of No seems to have forgotten this factoid, which perhaps is a significant factor for why they are currently leaderless.  Certainly, my respectable conservative friends for the most part have bailed from the GOP in large part because of the current politics of desperation of “embracing the fringe freaks” while abandoning the ideals the party has stood for.   Some are still hanging in there hoping & working for change, and for the sake of this nation, I hope they are successful and that it happens soon.  The hate- and fear-mongering path the party has sold out to is disgraceful and dangerous.  

      Saundra Lund

      Moscow, ID

      The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing.

      ~ Edmund Burke

      ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2009 through life plus 70 years, Saundra Lund.  Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of the author.*****

      From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of g. crabtree
      Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 11:43 AM
      To: Joe Campbell; Moscow Vision 2020
      Subject: Re: [Vision2020] NYTimes: The Big Hate

      Okey Dokey, you and Krugman believe that people who watch FOX news, occasionally listen to Limbaugh, Beck, or Hannity, are a recently returned vet, a conservative or a RNC member are murderous terrorists. Whats your plan for dealing with this calamity? Lets hear about how you and all of the forces of truth and light plan on dealing with this unfortunate turn of events. This ought to be a hoot!

      g

        ----- Original Message ----- 

        From: Joe Campbell 

        To: Moscow Vision 2020 

        Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 7:51 AM

        Subject: [Vision2020] NYTimes: The Big Hate

        From The New York Times:

        OP-ED COLUMNIST: The Big Hate

        By PAUL KRUGMAN

        The rise of right-wing extremism is being systematically fed by the conservative media and political establishment....

        http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/12/opinion/12krugman.html

        Get The New York Times on your iPhone for free by visiting http://nytimes.com/iphoneinstaller

        Joe Campbell

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