[Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
lfalen
lfalen at turbonet.com
Tue Jan 20 12:32:06 PST 2009
Joe
I enjoyed your discussion with Chas and Keely on communion and religion. For the most part I agree with you on the.
I am somewhat confused though with your position on the use of university computers. Just because there is not a cost involved does not mean that it is still not wrong. university computer should not be used to promote a political point ow view.
Roger
-----Original message-----
From: Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 11:58:52 -0800
To: "g. crabtree" jampot at roadrunner.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
> It wasn't an argument. It was a reply to an argument Donovan gave and
> you gave before that. Your initial post talked about "taxpayer
> resources." My question/reply was written in response to that. In
> response, you shifted to a new argument. Before responding to it, I
> want to know if you think that your last comment is the basis for the
> Bigot Guy's lawsuit, or if you plan to switch to some new reason once
> I rebut it.
>
> And what the heck is "taxpayer time"? Am I using taxpayer time now
> just because I work for the state?
>
> Lastly, you wrote in support of Bigot Guy even though you admit below
> that you don't know the basis of the lawsuit. But my claim that you
> are a shill was offbase because ...?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 19, 2009, at 10:31 AM, "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Once again I'm confused. I thought I was directly addressing your
> > argument. Perhaps I misunderstood. It looked to me as though you
> > were trying to assert that since no one had yet to attach a dollar
> > value to the matter that "it is not clear what the worry is about."
> > I was merely pointing out a potential flaw in that line of reasoning.
> >
> > For the record, I have no idea of the specifics of Mr. Glasebooks
> > complaint. I have not spoken to him or anyone else about the matter.
> > My point is, was, and will continue to be that IF a university
> > employee was using taxpayer time and resources to advance a personal
> > agenda then a private citizen is well within their rights to bring
> > the matter up and have it addressed. Period.
> >
> > g
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Joe Campbell
> > To: g. crabtree
> > Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 8:31 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
> >
> > Like always, you are now changing the argument from the one that I
> > was commenting on, the one you gave originally. Are you now claiming
> > that this is the basis of the Bigot Guy's lawsuit?
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Jan 19, 2009, at 7:45 AM, "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Lets have a look at the potential "wrong reasons:"
> >>
> >> 1. Anti Wal-Mart? Great, no problem
> >>
> >> 2. Anti corporate? Swell
> >>
> >> 3. Anti capitalism? Dandy
> >>
> >> 4. Anti religion? Fine
> >>
> >> 5. Anti Catholic, Jew, Mormon, Muslim? Well....
> >>
> >> 6. Anti Black, Brown, Yellow? Now wait a minute...
> >>
> >> 7. Anti abortion? Stop right there! Now you've gone to far!
> >>
> >> None of these web sites would cost the tax payer any more then the
> >> other. Since we can't attach a dollar value to any of these, I
> >> guess that it's not clear what the worry is about.
> >>
> >> g
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Joe Campbell
> >> To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> >> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 7:13 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
> >>
> >> Suppose someone used a UI website for the "wrong" reasons. What is
> >> the cost in actual dollars to the tax payer? If you can't put a
> >> number on it it is not clear what the worry is about.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> On Jan 18, 2009, at 9:23 PM, Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>> Keely,
> >>>
> >>> It might be that some members of Christ Church feel they have been
> >>> unjustly attacked with the illegal and improper use of UI property
> >>> by some of its employees and want to prevent it from occurring
> >>> again. Which I think is understandable. Nobody wants their taxes
> >>> to be used against them in biased way. There is lots of evidence
> >>> that UI employees have used UI property improperly for personal
> >>> use. So it would be wise to start there, in my opinion.
> >>>
> >>> I don't agree with this avenue to stop this behavior though. In
> >>> part because even if true, it isn't costly or inconvenient to move
> >>> off UI's network and get the same services for free or easy
> >>> somewhere else. And since little financial harm was done to the
> >>> person filing the complaint, it won't get anyone any money except
> >>> the lawyers.
> >>>
> >>> Best Regards,
> >>>
> >>> Donovan
> >>>
> >>> --- On Sun, 1/18/09, keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:
> >>> From: keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
> >>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
> >>> To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com, godshatter at yahoo.com, josephc at wsu.edu
> >>> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>> Date: Sunday, January 18, 2009, 2:46 PM
> >>>
> >>> The great WalMart debate, Donovan, is not likely to be solved here
> >>> on Vision, and certainly not by me. My point was that it seems an
> >>> odd subject for such intense Christ Church involvement and
> >>> enthusiasm.
> >>>
> >>> Keely
> >>> http://keely-prevailingwinds.blogspot.com/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:30:00 -0800
> >>> From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> >>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
> >>> To: godshatter at yahoo.com; josephc at wsu.edu; kjajmix1 at msn.com
> >>> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>>
> >>> Keely,
> >>>
> >>> I think a lot of people like Wal-Mart because it provides jobs to
> >>> people that have a hard time getting jobs elsewhere. It provides
> >>> disposable goods at a price more affordable to people with lower
> >>> incomes. And they like the idea of free enterprise.
> >>>
> >>> I understand many of people's objections to Wal-Mart. I just don't
> >>> understand why the people that object to Wal-Mart cannot
> >>> understand they do good too, and are not lot a whole different
> >>> than other super chain stores in the country. They are just bigger
> >>> and cheaper, most the time.
> >>>
> >>> Best Regards,
> >>>
> >>> Donovan
> >>>
> >>> --- On Sun, 1/18/09, keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:
> >>> From: keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
> >>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
> >>> To: godshatter at yahoo.com, josephc at wsu.edu
> >>> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>> Date: Sunday, January 18, 2009, 12:39 PM
> >>>
> >>> Isn't the main question here something along the lines of "why in
> >>> God's name would a church organization's leadership be so
> >>> intensely drawn to a Super WalMart store on the Palouse?"
> >>>
> >>> Or, conversely, "Why in God's name would a church organization's
> >>> leadership, in their desire to welcome a Super WalMart, be so
> >>> aggressively snotty toward those who disagree?"
> >>>
> >>> Keely
> >>> http://keely-prevailingwinds.blogspot.com/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 19:44:58 -0800
> >>> > From: godshatter at yahoo.com
> >>> > To: josephc at wsu.edu
> >>> > CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
> >>> >
> >>> > The current nosuperwalmart.com site doesn't appear to be hosted
> >>> by the U
> >>> > of I. I was wondering if there was an employee page that
> >>> preceded the
> >>> > domain name or something.
> >>> >
> >>> > If the University is not hosting the site, then the complaint
> >>> must be
> >>> > that an employee of the University worked on it. If they were
> >>> told to
> >>> > work on it as normal performance of their duties, that's one
> >>> thing. If
> >>> > the employee was working on it using University computers and/or
> >>> during
> >>> > paid work hours, then at best you have an employee breaking the
> >>> rules
> >>> > of computer usage at the U of I. That does not make the
> >>> University or
> >>> > the State liable for what they were working on. If they are
> >>> doing it on
> >>> > their own time, they have every right to do so.
> >>> >
> >>> > So, does this suit have merit? Any official hosting of the site,
> >>> or
> >>> > employees being paid specifically to work on it by the
> >>> University or the
> >>> > State?
> >>> >
> >>> > Paul
> >>> >
> >>> > Joseph Campbell wrote:
> >>> > > Get a clue. Check the source.
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > On 1/17/09 5:59 PM, "Paul Rumelhart" <godshatter at yahoo.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >> I've never seen the nosuperwalmart site. What are the facts?
> >>> Was it an
> >>> > >> official UI webpage? Was it the personal page of a UI
> >>> employee? In the
> >>> > >> first case, they have a case. In the second, the UI is acting
> >>> more as
> >>> > >> an ISP hosting personal content. I don't know the law there,
> >>> but I
> >>> > >> doubt it's as cut-and-dried.
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >> What was the URL to the page?
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >> Paul
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >> g. crabtree wrote:
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >>> I wish Mr. Glasebrook the very best in this Endeavour. The U
> >>> of I was
> >>> > >>> completely remiss in allowing taxpayer resources to be
> >>> squandered promoting
> >>> > >>> these causes and public officials are negligent in their
> >>> duties when not
> >>> > >>> taking citizen complaints seriously.
> >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>> g
> >>> > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> > >>> From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
> >>> > >>> To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >>> > >>> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 10:00 AM
> >>> > >>> Subject: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
> >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>>> Remember Dave Glasebrook?
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>> In case you don't, he's the carrothead on the left . . .
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>> http://www.tomandrodna.com/Photos/102907_Glasebrook.jpg
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>> Well, he (for lack of a more appropriate pronoun) is back.
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>> Courtesy of the Moscow-Pullman Daily News.
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>> Man files petition requesting action from governor on
> >>> allegations against
> >>> > >>>> UI
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>> A Moscow resident has taken legal action against Idaho Gov.
> >>> C.L. "Butch"
> >>> > >>>> Otter, claiming the governor "failed to faithfully enforce
> >>> Idaho law."
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>> Dave Glasebrook filed a petition for a writ of mandate
> >>> against Otter in
> >>> > >>>> Latah County District Court on Monday.
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>> The document states Otter "breached public faith" and
> >>> Glasebrook's civil
> >>> > >>>> rights by failing to investigate Glasebrook's claims that
> >>> the University
> >>> > >>>> of Idaho covered up illegal computer use over the past
> >>> several years.
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>> Glasebrook claims the UI allowed an employee to run the Web
> >>> site
> >>> > >>>> NoSuperWalMart.com using UI computer and phone systems. He
> >>> also claims the
> >>> > >>>> UI allowed people "to send e-mail and post messages
> >>> containing political,
> >>> > >>>> defamatory, threatening or otherwise prohibited activity."
> >>> The claim is
> >>> > >>>> primarily related to Internet postings regarding the Moscow
> >>> School
> >>> > >>>> District's 2007 levy election.
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>> Glasebrook's petition also asserts the UI violated open
> >>> records law by not
> >>> > >>>> releasing certain employee and student e-mails he requested
> >>> related to the
> >>> > >>>> Web site and postings.
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>> The petition requests Otter order Idaho Attorney General
> >>> Lawrence Wasden
> >>> > >>>> to subpoena information about NoSuperWalmart.com, order the
> >>> UI to release
> >>> > >>>> e-mail and electronic records to Glasebrook and assign an
> >>> Idaho State
> >>> > >>>> Police officer to retrieve material from UI computers.
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>> Glasebrook's final request is for Otter to appear before
> >>> the court
> >>> > >>>> to "explain in detail why he does not want to follow the
> >>> laws he is sworn
> >>> > >>>> to uphold and why he does not want to uphold (Glasebrook's)
> >>> civil rights
> >>> > >>>> and liberties."
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>> Records attached to the petition show Glasebrook has been
> >>> pursuing action
> >>> > >>>> against the UI since 2007. He has requested assistance from
> >>> Otter's
> >>> > >>>> office, Idaho State Supreme Court Chief Justice Daniel
> >>> Eismann, Latah
> >>> > >>>> County Prosecuting Attorney Bill Thompson, Moscow
> >>> Prosecuting Attorney Rod
> >>> > >>>> Hall and former UI President Tim White.
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>> Now, where did I put those public records requests?
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>> Great! Here they are.
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>> Stay tuned, Moscow. More to follow . . .
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>> Tom Hansen
> >>> > >>>> Moscow, Idaho
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>> "For a lapsed Lutheran born-again Buddhist pan-Humanist
> >>> Universalist
> >>> > >>>> Unitarian Wiccan Agnostic like myself there's really no
> >>> reason ever to go
> >>> > >>>> to work."
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>> - Roy Zimmerman
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>> ---------------------------------------------
> >>> > >>>> This message was sent by First Step Internet.
> >>> > >>>> http://www.fsr.com/
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>> =======================================================
> >>> > >>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >>> > >>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >>> > >>>> http://www.fsr.net
> >>> > >>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>> > >>>> =======================================================
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>> =======================================================
> >>> > >>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >>> > >>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >>> > >>> http://www.fsr.net
> >>> > >>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>> > >>> =======================================================
> >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>>
> >>> > >> =======================================================
> >>> > >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >>> > >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >>> > >> http://www.fsr.net
> >>> > >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>> > >> =======================================================
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > =======================================================
> >>> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >>> > http://www.fsr.net
> >>> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>> > =======================================================
> >>>
> >>> Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. S
> >>> ee how it works.
> >>> =======================================================
> >>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >>> http://www.fsr.net
> >>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>> =======================================================
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. C
> >>> heck it out.
> >>> =======================================================
> >>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >>> http://www.fsr.net
> >>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>> =======================================================
> >>>
> >>
> >>> =======================================================
> >>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >>> http://www.fsr.net
> >>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>> =======================================================
> >>
> >> =======================================================
> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >> http://www.fsr.net
> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> =======================================================
> >> of the Palouse since 1994.
> >> http://www.fsr.net
> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> ======================================================= Y>
> >> =======================================================
> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >> http://www.fsr.net
> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> =======================================================
> >
>
>
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