[Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
Joe Campbell
philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Tue Jan 20 17:17:48 PST 2009
I never said that because there is no cost involved it is not wrong to
use university resources. I was responding to arguments suggesting
that it was wrong because of the costs involved. That can't be why it
is wrong -- if it is wrong -- since there are no costs.
Joe Campbell
On Jan 20, 2009, at 12:32 PM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
> Joe
> I enjoyed your discussion with Chas and Keely on communion and
> religion. For the most part I agree with you on the.
> I am somewhat confused though with your position on the use of
> university computers. Just because there is not a cost involved does
> not mean that it is still not wrong. university computer should not
> be used to promote a political point ow view.
> Roger
> -----Original message-----
> From: Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com
> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 11:58:52 -0800
> To: "g. crabtree" jampot at roadrunner.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
>
>> It wasn't an argument. It was a reply to an argument Donovan gave and
>> you gave before that. Your initial post talked about "taxpayer
>> resources." My question/reply was written in response to that. In
>> response, you shifted to a new argument. Before responding to it, I
>> want to know if you think that your last comment is the basis for the
>> Bigot Guy's lawsuit, or if you plan to switch to some new reason once
>> I rebut it.
>>
>> And what the heck is "taxpayer time"? Am I using taxpayer time now
>> just because I work for the state?
>>
>> Lastly, you wrote in support of Bigot Guy even though you admit below
>> that you don't know the basis of the lawsuit. But my claim that you
>> are a shill was offbase because ...?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 19, 2009, at 10:31 AM, "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Once again I'm confused. I thought I was directly addressing your
>>> argument. Perhaps I misunderstood. It looked to me as though you
>>> were trying to assert that since no one had yet to attach a dollar
>>> value to the matter that "it is not clear what the worry is about."
>>> I was merely pointing out a potential flaw in that line of
>>> reasoning.
>>>
>>> For the record, I have no idea of the specifics of Mr. Glasebooks
>>> complaint. I have not spoken to him or anyone else about the matter.
>>> My point is, was, and will continue to be that IF a university
>>> employee was using taxpayer time and resources to advance a personal
>>> agenda then a private citizen is well within their rights to bring
>>> the matter up and have it addressed. Period.
>>>
>>> g
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Joe Campbell
>>> To: g. crabtree
>>> Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 8:31 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
>>>
>>> Like always, you are now changing the argument from the one that I
>>> was commenting on, the one you gave originally. Are you now claiming
>>> that this is the basis of the Bigot Guy's lawsuit?
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 19, 2009, at 7:45 AM, "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lets have a look at the potential "wrong reasons:"
>>>>
>>>> 1. Anti Wal-Mart? Great, no problem
>>>>
>>>> 2. Anti corporate? Swell
>>>>
>>>> 3. Anti capitalism? Dandy
>>>>
>>>> 4. Anti religion? Fine
>>>>
>>>> 5. Anti Catholic, Jew, Mormon, Muslim? Well....
>>>>
>>>> 6. Anti Black, Brown, Yellow? Now wait a minute...
>>>>
>>>> 7. Anti abortion? Stop right there! Now you've gone to far!
>>>>
>>>> None of these web sites would cost the tax payer any more then the
>>>> other. Since we can't attach a dollar value to any of these, I
>>>> guess that it's not clear what the worry is about.
>>>>
>>>> g
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Joe Campbell
>>>> To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
>>>> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 7:13 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
>>>>
>>>> Suppose someone used a UI website for the "wrong" reasons. What is
>>>> the cost in actual dollars to the tax payer? If you can't put a
>>>> number on it it is not clear what the worry is about.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 18, 2009, at 9:23 PM, Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Keely,
>>>>>
>>>>> It might be that some members of Christ Church feel they have been
>>>>> unjustly attacked with the illegal and improper use of UI property
>>>>> by some of its employees and want to prevent it from occurring
>>>>> again. Which I think is understandable. Nobody wants their taxes
>>>>> to be used against them in biased way. There is lots of evidence
>>>>> that UI employees have used UI property improperly for personal
>>>>> use. So it would be wise to start there, in my opinion.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't agree with this avenue to stop this behavior though. In
>>>>> part because even if true, it isn't costly or inconvenient to move
>>>>> off UI's network and get the same services for free or easy
>>>>> somewhere else. And since little financial harm was done to the
>>>>> person filing the complaint, it won't get anyone any money except
>>>>> the lawyers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Donovan
>>>>>
>>>>> --- On Sun, 1/18/09, keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:
>>>>> From: keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
>>>>> To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com, godshatter at yahoo.com, josephc at wsu.edu
>>>>> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>> Date: Sunday, January 18, 2009, 2:46 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> The great WalMart debate, Donovan, is not likely to be solved here
>>>>> on Vision, and certainly not by me. My point was that it seems an
>>>>> odd subject for such intense Christ Church involvement and
>>>>> enthusiasm.
>>>>>
>>>>> Keely
>>>>> http://keely-prevailingwinds.blogspot.com/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:30:00 -0800
>>>>> From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
>>>>> To: godshatter at yahoo.com; josephc at wsu.edu; kjajmix1 at msn.com
>>>>> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Keely,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think a lot of people like Wal-Mart because it provides jobs to
>>>>> people that have a hard time getting jobs elsewhere. It provides
>>>>> disposable goods at a price more affordable to people with lower
>>>>> incomes. And they like the idea of free enterprise.
>>>>>
>>>>> I understand many of people's objections to Wal-Mart. I just don't
>>>>> understand why the people that object to Wal-Mart cannot
>>>>> understand they do good too, and are not lot a whole different
>>>>> than other super chain stores in the country. They are just bigger
>>>>> and cheaper, most the time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Donovan
>>>>>
>>>>> --- On Sun, 1/18/09, keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:
>>>>> From: keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
>>>>> To: godshatter at yahoo.com, josephc at wsu.edu
>>>>> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>> Date: Sunday, January 18, 2009, 12:39 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> Isn't the main question here something along the lines of "why in
>>>>> God's name would a church organization's leadership be so
>>>>> intensely drawn to a Super WalMart store on the Palouse?"
>>>>>
>>>>> Or, conversely, "Why in God's name would a church organization's
>>>>> leadership, in their desire to welcome a Super WalMart, be so
>>>>> aggressively snotty toward those who disagree?"
>>>>>
>>>>> Keely
>>>>> http://keely-prevailingwinds.blogspot.com/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 19:44:58 -0800
>>>>>> From: godshatter at yahoo.com
>>>>>> To: josephc at wsu.edu
>>>>>> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The current nosuperwalmart.com site doesn't appear to be hosted
>>>>> by the U
>>>>>> of I. I was wondering if there was an employee page that
>>>>> preceded the
>>>>>> domain name or something.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the University is not hosting the site, then the complaint
>>>>> must be
>>>>>> that an employee of the University worked on it. If they were
>>>>> told to
>>>>>> work on it as normal performance of their duties, that's one
>>>>> thing. If
>>>>>> the employee was working on it using University computers and/or
>>>>> during
>>>>>> paid work hours, then at best you have an employee breaking the
>>>>> rules
>>>>>> of computer usage at the U of I. That does not make the
>>>>> University or
>>>>>> the State liable for what they were working on. If they are
>>>>> doing it on
>>>>>> their own time, they have every right to do so.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, does this suit have merit? Any official hosting of the site,
>>>>> or
>>>>>> employees being paid specifically to work on it by the
>>>>> University or the
>>>>>> State?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joseph Campbell wrote:
>>>>>>> Get a clue. Check the source.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/17/09 5:59 PM, "Paul Rumelhart" <godshatter at yahoo.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've never seen the nosuperwalmart site. What are the facts?
>>>>> Was it an
>>>>>>>> official UI webpage? Was it the personal page of a UI
>>>>> employee? In the
>>>>>>>> first case, they have a case. In the second, the UI is acting
>>>>> more as
>>>>>>>> an ISP hosting personal content. I don't know the law there,
>>>>> but I
>>>>>>>> doubt it's as cut-and-dried.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What was the URL to the page?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> g. crabtree wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I wish Mr. Glasebrook the very best in this Endeavour. The U
>>>>> of I was
>>>>>>>>> completely remiss in allowing taxpayer resources to be
>>>>> squandered promoting
>>>>>>>>> these causes and public officials are negligent in their
>>>>> duties when not
>>>>>>>>> taking citizen complaints seriously.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> g
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 10:00 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Remember Dave Glasebrook?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In case you don't, he's the carrothead on the left . . .
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.tomandrodna.com/Photos/102907_Glasebrook.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Well, he (for lack of a more appropriate pronoun) is back.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Courtesy of the Moscow-Pullman Daily News.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Man files petition requesting action from governor on
>>>>> allegations against
>>>>>>>>>> UI
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A Moscow resident has taken legal action against Idaho Gov.
>>>>> C.L. "Butch"
>>>>>>>>>> Otter, claiming the governor "failed to faithfully enforce
>>>>> Idaho law."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dave Glasebrook filed a petition for a writ of mandate
>>>>> against Otter in
>>>>>>>>>> Latah County District Court on Monday.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The document states Otter "breached public faith" and
>>>>> Glasebrook's civil
>>>>>>>>>> rights by failing to investigate Glasebrook's claims that
>>>>> the University
>>>>>>>>>> of Idaho covered up illegal computer use over the past
>>>>> several years.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Glasebrook claims the UI allowed an employee to run the Web
>>>>> site
>>>>>>>>>> NoSuperWalMart.com using UI computer and phone systems. He
>>>>> also claims the
>>>>>>>>>> UI allowed people "to send e-mail and post messages
>>>>> containing political,
>>>>>>>>>> defamatory, threatening or otherwise prohibited activity."
>>>>> The claim is
>>>>>>>>>> primarily related to Internet postings regarding the Moscow
>>>>> School
>>>>>>>>>> District's 2007 levy election.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Glasebrook's petition also asserts the UI violated open
>>>>> records law by not
>>>>>>>>>> releasing certain employee and student e-mails he requested
>>>>> related to the
>>>>>>>>>> Web site and postings.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The petition requests Otter order Idaho Attorney General
>>>>> Lawrence Wasden
>>>>>>>>>> to subpoena information about NoSuperWalmart.com, order the
>>>>> UI to release
>>>>>>>>>> e-mail and electronic records to Glasebrook and assign an
>>>>> Idaho State
>>>>>>>>>> Police officer to retrieve material from UI computers.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Glasebrook's final request is for Otter to appear before
>>>>> the court
>>>>>>>>>> to "explain in detail why he does not want to follow the
>>>>> laws he is sworn
>>>>>>>>>> to uphold and why he does not want to uphold (Glasebrook's)
>>>>> civil rights
>>>>>>>>>> and liberties."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Records attached to the petition show Glasebrook has been
>>>>> pursuing action
>>>>>>>>>> against the UI since 2007. He has requested assistance from
>>>>> Otter's
>>>>>>>>>> office, Idaho State Supreme Court Chief Justice Daniel
>>>>> Eismann, Latah
>>>>>>>>>> County Prosecuting Attorney Bill Thompson, Moscow
>>>>> Prosecuting Attorney Rod
>>>>>>>>>> Hall and former UI President Tim White.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Now, where did I put those public records requests?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Great! Here they are.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Stay tuned, Moscow. More to follow . . .
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Tom Hansen
>>>>>>>>>> Moscow, Idaho
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "For a lapsed Lutheran born-again Buddhist pan-Humanist
>>>>> Universalist
>>>>>>>>>> Unitarian Wiccan Agnostic like myself there's really no
>>>>> reason ever to go
>>>>>>>>>> to work."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - Roy Zimmerman
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> This message was sent by First Step Internet.
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.fsr.com/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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>>>>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>>>> =======================================================
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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>>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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>>>>>
>>>>> Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with m
>>>>> ail. S
>>>>> ee how it works.
>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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>>>>> Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with m
>>>>> ail. C
>>>>> heck it out.
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>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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>>>>
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>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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>>>>
>>>> =======================================================
>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> =======================================================
>>>> of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> ======================================================= Y>
>>>> =======================================================
>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> =======================================================
>>>
>>
>>
>
>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> ======================================================= Y>
>>>> =======================================================
>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> =======================================================
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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