[Vision2020] Now Housing

Sat Jan 17 06:27:22 PST 2009

Instead of restricting your comments to the Vision 2020 listserve, perhaps you should present your argument before the Moscow City Council on Tuesday.

I assure you that the city council is well aware of, and well versed in, this topic . . .

Fair and Affordable Housing Commission Funding Request (December 1, 2008)
http://www.moscowcares.com/120108_FairAffordHsgCommFundReq.htm

The committee report concerning the Fair Housing Commission Affordable Housing Funding Request
http://www.moscowcares.com/120108_04_AffordableHousingFunding_CommRep.pdf

How about it?

Can we count on you?

Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho

"For a lapsed Lutheran born-again Buddhist pan-Humanist Universalist Unitarian Wiccan Agnostic like myself there's really no reason ever to go to work."

- Roy Zimmerman

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 03:11:18 -0800From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.comTo: baukunst at moscow.comCC: vision2020 at moscow.comSubject: Re: [Vision2020] Now Housing

Mark,

I am happy you are still interested in this subject.

1) If you take federal funding, you are subject to their rules. The rules don't fit Moscow.

2) If you tax property in Moscow, it is no longer affordable to the poor.

3) If you are doing it for profit, like nursing homes are, rather than for the good the people, you will drive the cost up. A typical nursing home company, for example, needs a 30% return on their investment in order to remain attractive to investors and competative to other for-profit nursing homes. I would imagine you would need to have a similar return for this project.

So do all the math. A 30% profit on a taxed property, and you end up with a $500 a month apartment. And thus an average apartment in Moscow, not a low income one. Plus it has federal restrictions on who can even live in the housing unit. You are end up with the same situation we have now. 

We need to cut out the additionial costs of providing huge profits to investors, high taxes from the local governments, and heavy restrictions from the federal government, from the start. 

A good structure, I think, for a low income housing unit would be one that is all one level, on level ground. No Stairs, they should have big kitchens, living rooms, with wide door ways. The bathrooms should be big enough to park a wheel chair next to the toilet and dismount, and be able to shut the door for privacy with a wheel chair or walker next to the toilet. The tubs and showers should allow a place to sit for a shower without getting water on the floor. The house should be easy to clean. All the bedrooms should also be equal size, so roomates don't argue over who gets what room.

There should be a busline that runs to downtown, the malls, Wal-Mart, recreation centers/parks, and the library. 

The units should look different enough from each other, not all the same and exact through out. It is annoying when you get easily confused or have bad eyesight and every apartment looks just like yours except for the tiny number on the door which you cannot see, read, or maybe remember. 

There should be a section for animals and no animals. Children, no children, criminals and non-criminals. But otherwise mixed company. There should also be patrols to protect from the many that prey on the vulnurable. 

The parking lot for the apartment should be right next to the door, not down the block. There should be a large wheelchair parking spot for the w/c apartments, and should allow enough room for a van that loads a w/c either from the side (a sideloader) or from the back (a rear loader). It should be big enough for a 3/4 van with a 10 ft. roof. 

The community should have a basic living supplies center. That is a place where other members of community can donate basic living needs like combs, toothbrushes, jackets, blankets, canned food, clothes, shoes, paper products, etc. It should also have information on services available to them, including employment opportunties. 

These were just some more things I thought about when working with some people and what they told me and experienced. 

Best Regards,

Donovan

--- On Sat, 1/17/09, mark seman <baukunst at moscow.com> wrote:
From: mark seman <baukunst at moscow.com>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Family-Friendly Activities (was U of I ProgramCuts) - Now HousingTo: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.comCc: "Vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>Date: Saturday, January 17, 2009, 1:43 AM

Donovan,
I'm glad to see someone bring up the topic of housing again.  I've been away from it for a while, but I have not forgotten it.

Comments on your suggestions are:
#1 I can see keeping some Federal monies away but maybe still using energy and resource conservation funds.
#2 Personally, I'd like to see no non-tax paying entities (everyone equitably paying taxes) in Moscow - it would help spread the burden.
#3 I think money needs to be made by the private funders and community-profit by the City funds.  I don't see how not-for-profit would work, but I think many new successful project models will be joint ventures of for-profit and not-for-profit organizations.

What additional detail can you provide me on what you envision.?  Anyone else have ideas?

Thanks,
Mark

mark.r.seman.architect
       i n t e g r a t i v e s

     9 2 8 . 9 2 5 . 7 6 1 7

3 d i n t e l l i g e n c e . c o m

-----Original Message-----From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]On Behalf Of Donovan ArnoldSent: Friday, January 16, 2009 11:54 PMTo: Vision2020; Darrell KeimSubject: Re: [Vision2020] Family-Friendly Activities (was U of I ProgramCuts)

Darrell,

Thanks for the thoughtful post. Sorry, I didn't see it in the sea of others on this list. 

First, thank you for your serve to the community as the Director of the Chamber of Commerce. Both my Grandfather and Uncle have held that position. 

I have suggested numerous times how to change the economic and housing, and entertainment culture of Moscow . But that doesn't change it. 

I have worked and gotten the US Government involved in improving the living conditions of UI Family Housing. I have gotten the UI to comply with ADA regulations, and changed parking regulations at UI so students are safer at night and can park closer to their evening classes. 

I have worked on campaigns both state and local, to get people to make the changes needed. But the thing is, after they get into office, they lose interest in the things we need, and focus on the things they want, which are not the same. 

The way to create low income housing is to build it with city and private funding and without federal dollars. That way you can make the rules for it without the required restrictive federal regulations which prevent most poor people in Moscow  from qualifying for it. Second, don't lay any property taxes on it. Third, you make it not-for-profit. Nobody in the city is interested in doing this. The current projects which they are reviewing, won’t work. They have the same problems with them. 

The second thing to do for entertainment of students is to make a list of the things that students want, with different areas of interest as possible. People seem to make lists and they obviously get the same answers, like basketball, baseball, and swimming pools, and the like. We need to introduce a VARIETY of activities that appeal to all tastes and interests. 

The third thing we need is more businesses and industry in the area. Moscow seems to dislike and knock down all efforts for new industries and construction unless it is 100% clean and green. While I think we need to be thinking about the environment, we cannot be so paranoid about it that we don't use our resources to our benefit and the prosperity and well being of the community. 

This is not the first time I have suggested these ideas and presented them to people. If people don't care to improve our community, and are happy with it failing exactly the way it is, then that is fine. But I think it is important to improve and change Moscow or it will eventually go the way of the dinosaur. 

Best Regards,

Donovan

--- On Thu, 1/15/09, Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:
From: Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Family-Friendly Activities (was U of I Program Cuts)To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com, "Vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 6:52 PMYou are correct, Donovan, I am "dogging on you."

I'll tell you why.

It is because I think you can do better than the negative, bitter
persona you project on Vision 2020.

You say you don't carry that negativity in your home, work or person.
I sincerely hope you are correct.  As a long time reader of Vision
2020 I see someone that is happy to bring up the faults of our area.
But, I rarely see you proposing solutions.  Nor, to my knowledge, have
I seen you make any efforts in real life to effect positive change in
our community (Again, maybe I'm wrong).  I'm told you were very active
as a student, but what have you done since then?  It is all well and
good to say "we need better jobs"or "lower cost housing,"
etc.  But,
aside from posting here, what are you doing to effect the change you
believe we need? There are numerous city and county councils working
on just the two issues I mention above.  These commissions are always
looking for smart, hard working people that are dedicated to Moscow.
People like you.

You posted here 79 times in December.  What positive things could you
have done for our community in that time?

I have a few more comments interspersed in the quote below:

2009/1/15 Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>:
> Lets see here Darell,
>
> You attack me, and call me negative.
>
> I suggest positive changes we should make to Moscow to keep families and
> students happy, that they have suggested to me, and you dog on me.

I haven't noticed you posting positive changes.  I've read you
pointing out negatives, but not trying to find solutions.  It is all
well and good to say "We have a need for lower cost housing."  But,
that is not posting a positive change.  It is simply pointing out a
fault.  Posting a positive change would require the additional step of
pointing out a change that could be made to begin solving the problem.
>
> I have lived in eight cities in Idaho, and eight other cities around the
> country ranging in size from a few hundred to over a million, I am fourth
> generation resident of Moscow, but according to you I haven't lived in
> enough cities or know Moscow well enough?

I never said you didn't know Moscow well enough.  I simply don't think
you are comparing apples toapples when you list the things we don't
have that other communities do.  I also think you are wrong when you
look at just Moscow, without also putting Pullman in the picture.
While the communities do compete, they're like siamese twins.  They
can't get away from each other, and they frequently compliment one
another.
>
> Humm, what is the definition of irony again?
>
i⋅ro⋅ny1   /ˈaɪrəni, ˈaɪər-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation 
[ahy-ruh-nee,
ahy-er-] –noun, plural -nies. 1. the use of words to convey a meaning
that is the opposite of its literal meaning: the irony of her reply,
"How nice!" when I said I had to work all weekend.

> If I am negative, it must be because of the negativity I get from  certain
> people on this forum, because I certainly don't carry it in my home,
work,
> or in person.

One thing I've learned:  You get what you give in life.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Donovan
>
> --- On Thu, 1/15/09, Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Family-Friendly Activities (was U of I Program
> Cuts)
> To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> Cc: "Jennifer Ingalls" <jennifer at inlandradio.com>,
"vision 2020"
> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 3:38 PM
>
> A couple of answers below:
> 2009/1/15 Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>:
>> Darrell,
>>
>> You obviously don't know me well if you don't know I have
lived in
>> many cities, half in Idaho.
> Obviously I don't know you well.  Judging by the negative attitude you
> portray on this listserv, I think I like it that way.  I will point
> out that having lived in many cities, half in Idaho, is not a terribly
> wide breadth of experience.
> I am pointing out why students don't stay in
>> Moscow. Obviously, the people that stay in Moscow find it to their
perfect
>> likely.
>>
>> But the issue is, if you want people to come here, UI and the city to
do
>> well, I would focus on the positive things you can do to improve that
>> situation. Not make excuses as why we cannot, or shouldn't do
anything
> to
>> help other people out.
> Focus on the positive things to improve is what I like to see, also.
> All I ever seem to see from you is the opposite.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Donovan
>>
>> --- On Thu, 1/15/09, Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> From: Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Family-Friendly Activities (was U of I
Program
>> Cuts)
>> To: "Jennifer Ingalls" <jennifer at inlandradio.com>
>> Cc: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com, "vision 2020"
> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 11:19 AM
>>
>> Donovan:
>> Have you ever lived anywhere outside of Moscow?  Especially in a
>> similarly sized community?  I have, several different places in fact,
>> and I'm willing to bet you have not.  For the size town it is,
Moscow
>> has an impressive list of things for families to do.  And, despite
>> your incessant carping, a decent range of salaries, too.  The key is
>> that you have to compare apples to apples.
>> Instead of listing what you think the town doesn't have, maybe you
>> should try being positive for a change.  Perhaps the listserv will
>> help you come up with a list of things to do in town.  I'll start:
>> Great restaurants
>> Nice parks
>> Several art galleries
>> What can you add, V2020?
>>> From: Donovan Arnold [mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 10:30 AM
>>> To: 'vision 2020'; Jennifer Ingalls
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Family-Friendly Activities (was U of I
> Program
>>> Cuts)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jennifer,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I liked doing all those things too as a child in Moscow. But lets
face
> it,
>>> there is only so some many times you can visit the McConnell
Mansion
>> before
>>> it no longer entertaining to a child. And camping doesn't
count
>> because you
>>> have to leave Moscow to go do it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you are an outdoors type of person, there are lots of things to
do
> in
>>> North Idaho. But for many people that are not, it leaves something
to
> be
>>> desired.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> One of the biggest complaints I heard from students was that there
was
>>> nothing to do in Moscow, and why so many people supported the
Student
>>> Recreation Building, which is more like a glorified and over
priced
> Idaho
>>> Athletic Club with a climbing wall then a recreation center for
> different
>>> kinds of recreational activities.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I do not think I have found a mother at UI that thought
Moscow's
>> daycare was
>>> inexpensive. There is a huge waiting list too.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What few things there are to do in Moscow, also cost a lot of
money,
> which
>>> is hard to afford when you have no money, because there are no
jobs
> that
>> pay
>>> above what you need to scrape by.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There is less to do in Moscow now then was when my Mother was
child in
>>> Moscow.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We have no bowling alley. We have no roller skating ring. We have
no
> IMax
>>> Theater. We have fewer quality restaurants. We have no high tech
> gaming
>>> center. We have no science discovery park, we have no big museums.
No
> race
>>> cars. No theme parks, no big fancy hangouts, we don't even
really
> have
>> a
>>> year round swimming pool,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The best thing Moscow has for entertainment is the Library. Which
is a
>> great
>>> library, but hardly the place that comes to mind when we want to
think
>> about
>>> entertainment.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, you can always THINK of something to do in Moscow, but that
is
> the
>>> problem, you really have to THINK, to find something to do. Its
> Midnight
>> in
>>> Moscow, besides the bars and the Jack N the Crack drive-thru, what
is
>> open?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Donovan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Wed, 1/14/09, Jennifer Ingalls
<jennifer at inlandradio.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> From: Jennifer Ingalls <jennifer at inlandradio.com>
>>> Subject: [Vision2020] Family-Friendly Activities (was U of I
Program
> Cuts)
>>> To: "'vision 2020'"
<vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>> Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 1:27 PM
>>>
>>> I don't necessarily want to get into the argument about
diversity
> in
>> Moscow
>>> or at UI, but I do take some issue with Donovan's statement,
> "Not
>> to mention
>>> the lack of affordable child care, or family fun activities."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I grew up in Moscow and though my family had more money than
families
>> where
>>> a student is the primary financier of the household, we were not
at a
> loss
>>> for family-friendly free activities (unless we were willfully
bored).
> This
>>> is not to say that we can't do better as a community at
providing
> free
>>> and/or inexpensive activities, but I think many of us forget those
> things
>>> that are available to us. For example, I –regretfully—cannot
> remember
>> the
>>> last time I went to the McConnell Mansion or picked up a walking
tour
>> guide
>>> of the towns history and hoofed it through Fort Russell (two
> activities
>> that
>>> occupied Spring and Summer days of my youth). The library (which I
>> remember
>>> as only being the old part of the building) was cool in the Summer
and
>> warm
>>> in the Winter. Organizations like Campfire, Boy Scouts, Girl
Scouts
> and
>>> local churches provided the three of us a lot of fun and
educational
>>> activities (both our family's church of choice and the
churches or
>> religious
>>> organizations of friends). My mom used to take us to Good Sam to
>> distribute
>>> our wares after craft days at the house. We'd ride bikes out
to
>> Robinson
>>> Lake Park , "fish" in Hordeman's pond, or take
advantage
> of
>> all the
>>> demonstrations, concerts and educational lectures the University
> offered.
>>> There were a lot of things to do!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'll grant that I was a nerdy kid (still am). I, too, would
love
> to
>> see more
>>> activities available after school that would appeal to "at
> risk"
>> youth (I AM
>>> doing something about that with my involvement in Latah County
Youth
>>> Advocacy Council), but I don't think can jump on board with
the
> whole
>>> "there's nothing to do here" claim.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jennifer L. Ingalls
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>
>

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