[Vision2020] Now Housing

[Andreas Schou]

Donovan --

In what sense do the federal rules "not fit" Moscow? And in what sense do
they "not fit" Moscow worse than *no funding* doesn't fit Moscow?

-- ACS

On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 3:11 AM, Donovan Arnold <
donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Mark,
>
> I am happy you are still interested in this subject.
>
> 1) If you take federal funding, you are subject to their rules. The rules
> don't fit Moscow.
>
> 2) If you tax property in Moscow, it is no longer affordable to the poor.
>
> 3) If you are doing it for profit, like nursing homes are, rather than for
> the good the people, you will drive the cost up. A typical nursing home
> company, for example, needs a 30% return on their investment in order to
> remain attractive to investors and competative to other for-profit nursing
> homes. I would imagine you would need to have a similar return for this
> project.
>
> So do all the math. A 30% profit on a taxed property, and you end up with a
> $500 a month apartment. And thus an average apartment in Moscow, not a low
> income one. Plus it has federal restrictions on who can even live in the
> housing unit. You are end up with the same situation we have now.
>
> We need to cut out the additionial costs of providing huge profits to
> investors, high taxes from the local governments, and heavy restrictions
> from the federal government, from the start.
>
> A good structure, I think, for a low income housing unit would be one that
> is all one level, on level ground. No Stairs, they should have big kitchens,
> living rooms, with wide door ways. The bathrooms should be big enough to
> park a wheel chair next to the toilet and dismount, and be able to shut the
> door for privacy with a wheel chair or walker next to the toilet. The tubs
> and showers should allow a place to sit for a shower without getting water
> on the floor. The house should be easy to clean. All the bedrooms should
> also be equal size, so roomates don't argue over who gets what room.
>
> There should be a busline that runs to downtown, the malls, Wal-Mart,
> recreation centers/parks, and the library.
>
> *The units should look different enough from each other, not all the same
> and exact through out. It is annoying when you get easily confused or have
> bad eyesight and every apartment looks just like yours except for the tiny
> number on the door which you cannot see, read, or maybe remember. *
>
> There should be a section for animals and no animals. Children, no
> children, criminals and non-criminals. But otherwise mixed company. There
> should also be patrols to protect from the many that prey on the vulnurable.
>
>
> The parking lot for the apartment should be right next to the door, not
> down the block. There should be a large wheelchair parking spot for the w/c
> apartments, and should allow enough room for a van that loads a w/c either
> from the side (a sideloader) or from the back (a rear loader). It should be
> big enough for a 3/4 van with a 10 ft. roof.
>
> The community should have a basic living supplies center. That is a place
> where other members of community can donate basic living needs like combs,
> toothbrushes, jackets, blankets, canned food, clothes, shoes, paper
> products, etc. It should also have information on services available to
> them, including employment opportunties.
>
> These were just some more things I thought about when working with some
> people and what they told me and experienced.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Donovan
>
>
> --- On *Sat, 1/17/09, mark seman <baukunst at moscow.com>* wrote:
>
> From: mark seman <baukunst at moscow.com>
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Family-Friendly Activities (was U of I
> ProgramCuts) - Now Housing
> To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> Cc: "Vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Date: Saturday, January 17, 2009, 1:43 AM
>
>  Donovan,
> I'm glad to see someone bring up the topic of housing again.  I've been
> away from it for a while, but I have not forgotten it.
>
> Comments on your suggestions are:
> #1 I can see keeping some Federal monies away but maybe still using energy
> and resource conservation funds.
> #2 Personally, I'd like to see no non-tax paying entities (everyone
> equitably paying taxes) in Moscow - it would help spread the burden.
> #3 I think money needs to be made by the private funders and
> community-profit by the City funds.  I don't see how not-for-profit would
> work, but I think many new successful project models will be joint
> ventures of for-profit and not-for-profit organizations.
>
> What additional detail can you provide me on what you envision.?  Anyone
> else have ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Mark
>
>
>
> *mark.r.seman.architect*
>
>        i n t e g r a t i v e s
>
>      9 2 8 . 9 2 5 . 7 6 1 7
>
> 3 d i n t e l l i g e n c e . c o m
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:
> vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]*On Behalf Of *Donovan Arnold
> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2009 11:54 PM
> *To:* Vision2020; Darrell Keim
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Family-Friendly Activities (was U of I
> ProgramCuts)
>
>   Darrell,
>
> Thanks for the thoughtful post. Sorry, I didn't see it in the sea of others
> on this list.
>
> First, thank you for your serve to the community as the Director of the
> Chamber of Commerce. Both my Grandfather and Uncle have held that position.
>
> I have suggested numerous times how to change the economic and housing, and
> entertainment culture of Moscow . But that doesn't change it.
>
> I have worked and gotten the US Government involved in improving the living
> conditions of UI Family Housing. I have gotten the UI to comply with ADA
> regulations, and changed parking regulations at UI so students are safer at
> night and can park closer to their evening classes.
>
> I have worked on campaigns both state and local, to get people to make the
> changes needed. But the thing is, after they get into office, they lose
> interest in the things we need, and focus on the things they want, which are
> not the same.
>
> The way to create low income housing is to build it with city and private
> funding and without federal dollars. That way you can make the rules for it
> without the required restrictive federal regulations which prevent most poor
> people in Moscow  from qualifying for it. Second, don't lay any property
> taxes on it. Third, you make it not-for-profit. Nobody in the city is
> interested in doing this. The current projects which they are reviewing,
> won't work. They have the same problems with them.
>
> The second thing to do for entertainment of students is to make a list of
> the things that students want, with different areas of interest as possible.
> People seem to make lists and they obviously get the same answers, like
> basketball, baseball, and swimming pools, and the like. We need to
> introduce a VARIETY of activities that appeal to all tastes and interests.
>
> The third thing we need is more businesses and industry in the area. Moscow
> seems to dislike and knock down all efforts for new industries and
> construction unless it is 100% clean and green. While I think we need to be
> thinking about the environment, we cannot be so paranoid about it that we
> don't use our resources to our benefit and the prosperity and well being
> of the community.
>
> This is not the first time I have suggested these ideas and presented them
> to people. If people don't care to improve our community, and are happy with
> it failing exactly the way it is, then that is fine. But I think it is
> important to improve and change Moscow or it will eventually go the way of
> the dinosaur.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Donovan
>
>
>
>
> --- On *Thu, 1/15/09, Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com>* wrote:
>
> From: Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Family-Friendly Activities (was U of I Program
> Cuts)
> To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com, "Vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 6:52 PM
>
> You are correct, Donovan, I am "dogging on you."
>
> I'll tell you why.
>
> It is because I think you can do better than the negative, bitter
> persona you project on Vision 2020.
>
> You say you don't carry that negativity in your home, work or person.
> I sincerely hope you are correct.  As a long time reader of Vision
> 2020 I see someone that is happy to bring up the faults of our area.
> But, I rarely see you proposing solutions.  Nor, to my knowledge, have
> I seen you make any efforts in real life to effect positive change in
> our community (Again, maybe I'm wrong).  I'm told you were very active
> as a student, but what have you done since then?  It is all well and
> good to say "we need better jobs"or "lower cost housing,"
> etc.  But,
> aside from posting here, what are you doing to effect the change you
> believe we need? There are numerous city and county councils working
> on just the two issues I mention above.  These commissions are always
> looking for smart, hard working people that are dedicated to Moscow.
> People like you.
>
> You posted here 79 times in December.  What positive things could you
> have done for our community in that time?
>
> I have a few more comments interspersed in the quote below:
>
> 2009/1/15 Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>:
> > Lets see here Darell,
> >
> > You attack me, and call me negative.
> >
> > I suggest positive changes we should make to Moscow to keep families and
> > students happy, that they have suggested to me, and you dog on me.
>
> I haven't noticed you posting positive changes.  I've read you
> pointing out negatives, but not trying to find solutions.  It is all
> well and good to say "We have a need for lower cost housing."  But,
> that is not posting a positive change.  It is simply pointing out a
> fault.  Posting a positive change would require the additional step of
> pointing out a change that could be made to begin solving the problem.
> >
> > I have lived in eight cities in Idaho, and eight other cities around the
> > country ranging in size from a few hundred to over a million, I am fourth
> > generation resident of Moscow, but according to you I haven't lived in
> > enough cities or know Moscow well enough?
>
> I never said you didn't know Moscow well enough.  I simply don't think
> you are comparing apples toapples when you list the things we don't
> have that other communities do.  I also think you are wrong when you
> look at just Moscow, without also putting Pullman in the picture.
> While the communities do compete, they're like siamese twins.  They
> can't get away from each other, and they frequently compliment one
> another.
> >
> > Humm, what is the definition of irony again?
> >
> i⋅ro⋅ny1   /ˈaɪrəni, ˈaɪər-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation
> [ahy-ruh-nee,
> ahy-er-] –noun, plural -nies. 1. the use of words to convey a meaning
> that is the opposite of its literal meaning: the irony of her reply,
> "How nice!" when I said I had to work all weekend.
>
> > If I am negative, it must be because of the negativity I get from  certain
> > people on this forum, because I certainly don't carry it in my home,
> work,
> > or in person.
>
> One thing I've learned:  You get what you give in life.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Donovan
> >
> > --- On Thu, 1/15/09, Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > From: Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Family-Friendly Activities (was U of I Program
> > Cuts)
> > To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> > Cc: "Jennifer Ingalls" <jennifer at inlandradio.com>,
> "vision 2020"
> > <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 3:38 PM
> >
> > A couple of answers below:
> > 2009/1/15 Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>:
> >> Darrell,
> >>
> >> You obviously don't know me well if you don't know I have
> lived in
> >> many cities, half in Idaho.
> > Obviously I don't know you well.  Judging by the negative attitude you
> > portray on this listserv, I think I like it that way.  I will point
> > out that having lived in many cities, half in Idaho, is not a terribly
> > wide breadth of experience.
> > I am pointing out why students don't stay in
> >> Moscow. Obviously, the people that stay in Moscow find it to their
> perfect
> >> likely.
> >>
> >> But the issue is, if you want people to come here, UI and the city to
> do
> >> well, I would focus on the positive things you can do to improve that
> >> situation. Not make excuses as why we cannot, or shouldn't do
> anything
> > to
> >> help other people out.
> > Focus on the positive things to improve is what I like to see, also.
> > All I ever seem to see from you is the opposite.
> >>
> >> Best Regards,
> >>
> >> Donovan
> >>
> >> --- On Thu, 1/15/09, Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> From: Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Family-Friendly Activities (was U of I
> Program
> >> Cuts)
> >> To: "Jennifer Ingalls" <jennifer at inlandradio.com>
> >> Cc: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com, "vision 2020"
> > <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >> Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 11:19 AM
> >>
> >> Donovan:
> >> Have you ever lived anywhere outside of Moscow?  Especially in a
> >> similarly sized community?  I have, several different places in fact,
> >> and I'm willing to bet you have not.  For the size town it is,
> Moscow
> >> has an impressive list of things for families to do.  And, despite
> >> your incessant carping, a decent range of salaries, too.  The key is
> >> that you have to compare apples to apples.
> >> Instead of listing what you think the town doesn't have, maybe you
> >> should try being positive for a change.  Perhaps the listserv will
> >> help you come up with a list of things to do in town.  I'll start:
> >> Great restaurants
> >> Nice parks
> >> Several art galleries
> >> What can you add, V2020?
> >>> From: Donovan Arnold [mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com]
> >>> Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 10:30 AM
> >>> To: 'vision 2020'; Jennifer Ingalls
> >>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Family-Friendly Activities (was U of I
> > Program
> >>> Cuts)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Jennifer,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I liked doing all those things too as a child in Moscow. But lets
> face
> > it,
> >>> there is only so some many times you can visit the McConnell
> Mansion
> >> before
> >>> it no longer entertaining to a child. And camping doesn't
> count
> >> because you
> >>> have to leave Moscow to go do it.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> If you are an outdoors type of person, there are lots of things to
> do
> > in
> >>> North Idaho. But for many people that are not, it leaves something
> to
> > be
> >>> desired.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> One of the biggest complaints I heard from students was that there
> was
> >>> nothing to do in Moscow, and why so many people supported the
> Student
> >>> Recreation Building, which is more like a glorified and over
> priced
> > Idaho
> >>> Athletic Club with a climbing wall then a recreation center for
> > different
> >>> kinds of recreational activities.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I do not think I have found a mother at UI that thought
> Moscow's
> >> daycare was
> >>> inexpensive. There is a huge waiting list too.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> What few things there are to do in Moscow, also cost a lot of
> money,
> > which
> >>> is hard to afford when you have no money, because there are no
> jobs
> > that
> >> pay
> >>> above what you need to scrape by.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> There is less to do in Moscow now then was when my Mother was
> child in
> >>> Moscow.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> We have no bowling alley. We have no roller skating ring. We have
> no
> > IMax
> >>> Theater. We have fewer quality restaurants. We have no high tech
> > gaming
> >>> center. We have no science discovery park, we have no big museums.
> No
> > race
> >>> cars. No theme parks, no big fancy hangouts, we don't even
> really
> > have
> >> a
> >>> year round swimming pool,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The best thing Moscow has for entertainment is the Library. Which
> is a
> >> great
> >>> library, but hardly the place that comes to mind when we want to
> think
> >> about
> >>> entertainment.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Yes, you can always THINK of something to do in Moscow, but that
> is
> > the
> >>> problem, you really have to THINK, to find something to do. Its
> > Midnight
> >> in
> >>> Moscow, besides the bars and the Jack N the Crack drive-thru, what
> is
> >> open?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Best Regards,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Donovan
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --- On Wed, 1/14/09, Jennifer Ingalls
> <jennifer at inlandradio.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> From: Jennifer Ingalls <jennifer at inlandradio.com>
> >>> Subject: [Vision2020] Family-Friendly Activities (was U of I
> Program
> > Cuts)
> >>> To: "'vision 2020'"
> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >>> Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 1:27 PM
> >>>
> >>> I don't necessarily want to get into the argument about
> diversity
> > in
> >> Moscow
> >>> or at UI, but I do take some issue with Donovan's statement,
> > "Not
> >> to mention
> >>> the lack of affordable child care, or family fun activities."
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I grew up in Moscow and though my family had more money than
> families
> >> where
> >>> a student is the primary financier of the household, we were not
> at a
> > loss
> >>> for family-friendly free activities (unless we were willfully
> bored).
> > This
> >>> is not to say that we can't do better as a community at
> providing
> > free
> >>> and/or inexpensive activities, but I think many of us forget those
> > things
> >>> that are available to us. For example, I –regretfully—cannot
> > remember
> >> the
> >>> last time I went to the McConnell Mansion or picked up a walking
> tour
> >> guide
> >>> of the towns history and hoofed it through Fort Russell (two
> > activities
> >> that
> >>> occupied Spring and Summer days of my youth). The library (which I
> >> remember
> >>> as only being the old part of the building) was cool in the Summer
> and
> >> warm
> >>> in the Winter. Organizations like Campfire, Boy Scouts, Girl
> Scouts
> > and
> >>> local churches provided the three of us a lot of fun and
> educational
> >>> activities (both our family's church of choice and the
> churches or
> >> religious
> >>> organizations of friends). My mom used to take us to Good Sam to
> >> distribute
> >>> our wares after craft days at the house. We'd ride bikes out
> to
> >> Robinson
> >>> Lake Park , "fish" in Hordeman's pond, or take
> advantage
> > of
> >> all the
> >>> demonstrations, concerts and educational lectures the University
> > offered.
> >>> There were a lot of things to do!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I'll grant that I was a nerdy kid (still am). I, too, would
> love
> > to
> >> see more
> >>> activities available after school that would appeal to "at
> > risk"
> >> youth (I AM
> >>> doing something about that with my involvement in Latah County
> Youth
> >>> Advocacy Council), but I don't think can jump on board with
> the
> > whole
> >>> "there's nothing to do here" claim.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Jennifer L. Ingalls
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> =======================================================
> >>>
> >>>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >>>
> >>>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >>>
> >>>                http://www.fsr.net
> >>>
> >>>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>>
> >>> =======================================================
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> =======================================================
> >>>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >>>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >>>               http://www.fsr.net
> >>>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>> =======================================================
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> =======================================================
>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>                http://www.fsr.net
>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
>
>
>
>
> =======================================================
>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>               http://www.fsr.net
>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
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