[Vision2020] A Paradox

Thu Feb 12 12:57:08 PST 2009

Who said no one? I'm saying not everyone, not me, not most folks.

I'm not celebrating anything. There is a tough road left ahead for all  
of us, not just Obama. But it is only one month, comprared with 8  
years. Say one thing negative about Bush compared with your comments  
about Obama and maybe I'll take you seriously. Give me a break, Roger.  
Where were your complaints about Bush in the last 5 years? I didn't  
see them. Then suddenly there is this. Give the man some time before  
passing judgment.

Joe Campbell

On Feb 12, 2009, at 12:19 PM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:

> You are totally naive if you think that no one voted for him for  
> that reason. It is of course not the only reason. I do not think  
> that very many of the hard core left would vote for Thomas Sowell.  
> My point was that Obama's election was a great historic event and  
> should be celebrated in that context, but that context only.
>
> Roger
> -----Original message-----
> From: Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com
> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 12:57:36 -0800
> To: lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Paradox
>
>> You don't read your own posts or mine well either. First, you failed
>> to mention Bush in your original post, so my assumptions are not
>> unwarranted. Second, I never said Bush was the only problem.
>>
>> Also, who besides you is talking about skin color? The implication of
>> your post was that some people voted for Obama because he was  
>> black. I
>> find no other sensible connection to the subject of race. That is
>> offensive to him, to blacks, to me, and to anyone else who voted for
>> him.
>>
>> Aren't you telling me and other Obama voters that we're impressed by
>> Obama because he's black, that that is the main reason we voted for
>> him? If not, what are you saying? Maybe you should figure that out
>> before you put up another post.
>>
>> Joe Campbell
>>
>> On Feb 12, 2009, at 11:09 AM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Joe
>>> You don't read very well. I never said that Bush did not deserve
>>> some of the blame. He does. The problem with you is you want to put
>>> it all on him, which is not the case. In actual fact he did bring up
>>> the problems with Freddie and Fannie in 2003 and was rebuffed. He
>>> should not have let up on it and he should never have done the
>>> rebates or promoted the bailouts. Obama is not to blame as
>>> president, but he does share some of the blame because of his
>>> association with ACORN. He will to be blame for the prolonged
>>> recovery. You put all of the blame on Bush. There is no way to
>>> verify it one way or the other, but I am convinced that we would be
>>> in much greater trouble today if either Gore or Kerry had won. I did
>>> not support Bush on a lot of things but he was better that the
>>> alternative.
>>> My point was that skin color should not have anything to do with it
>>> and that it should be dropped, but in this election it was a major
>>> concederation and is part of the reason Obama receives  such
>>> adulation. It should not have had any baring on it.
>>> Roger
>>> -----Original message-----
>>> From: Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com
>>> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 22:40:20 -0800
>>> To: lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Paradox
>>>
>>>> We just finished eight years of one of the worst two term
>>>> presidencies
>>>> in US history. This man started a war for no damn reason that we as
>>>> still stuck it, ran up the deficit (which Clinton got down to zero
>>>> after it was run up by previous Republican administrations), and  
>>>> left
>>>> us in the worst economic situation since the Great Depression. And
>>>> you
>>>> see fit to place the blame on a man who has been in office for
>>>> about a
>>>> month and any Democrat or liberal you can think of.
>>>>
>>>> What is wrong with you? For all the talk from conservatives about
>>>> personal resonsibility I see little of it. If you don't think that
>>>> Bush deserves any of the blame for our current economic troubles,
>>>> then
>>>> you have a serious problem.
>>>>
>>>> And what on earth does the color of the president's skin have to do
>>>> with any of it? If you want a color free society, then stop talking
>>>> about race in discussions where it is totally irrelevant.
>>>>
>>>> You and others voted for an idiot. Twice. And now were're paying  
>>>> the
>>>> price. It is just that simple.
>>>>
>>>> Joe Campbell
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 11, 2009, at 11:45 AM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> People are right to celebrate the election of Obama as a historic
>>>>> event. It truly is. It has been along hard struggle to archive the
>>>>> equality that is stated in the constitution. A lot of brave men  
>>>>> have
>>>>> been involved in the struggle. Lincoln, Frederick Douglass, Booker
>>>>> T. Washington, Medger Evers, King and may others. Some have given
>>>>> their lives. This is a bitter sweet victory, but wont be truly won
>>>>> until the color barrier is completely erased. A time when ones  
>>>>> color
>>>>> is no more of an issue than being Irish or German and race is not
>>>>> even mentioned. The tragedy is that Obama's economic views are so
>>>>> horribly wrong. What he is doing will prolong the recovery. I will
>>>>> be in the poor house before the economy recovers. Already people  
>>>>> are
>>>>> saying medical care will have to prioritized. An old codger like  
>>>>> me
>>>>> will be considered to have lived long enough. Any ailment will be
>>>>> allowed to run its course.
>>>>> Obama blames Bush, talking about the failed polices of the last
>>>>> eight years. Bush certainly bares some of the blame. The main  
>>>>> cause
>>>>> however lays with Acorn, Obama himself, Carter, Franks Dodd and
>>>>> Clinton. Franks and Dodd were warned about the problem with  
>>>>> Freddie
>>>>> and Fannie and said that everything was fine. Dodd and Obama are  
>>>>> the
>>>>> two largest recipients of contributions from Freddie and Fannie.
>>>>> Thes are now the people in charge of fixing the problem. This is
>>>>> like putting the fox in charge of the hen house.
>>>>> Obama calls for a bipartisan effort to pass his program. If he  
>>>>> want
>>>>> bipartisan support he first needs to rain in Rham Emanuel. Emanuel
>>>>> wamts to take the census away from the Commerce Department and put
>>>>> it under his control This is to politicize it. The goal is to  
>>>>> ensure
>>>>> democratic control forever. Obama is saying to the republicans in
>>>>> essence "I want to destroy you and I would like this to be a
>>>>> bipartisan effort". The Republicans would have to have a death  
>>>>> wish
>>>>> to go along with it. totally aside from the harmful effect to the
>>>>> country.
>>>>> Roger
>>>>>
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