[Vision2020] Fw: [Spam 5.86] BE OUTSIDE!

[lfalen]

Donovan
I am unaware that the Boy Scouts receive any money from the government. There are strings attached to accepting money from the government. It is up to the organization whether they want to accept those strings. It is possible that the Boy Scouts may receive some federal grants for specific purposes. I don't known whether they have done so  or not. If they do, this is still different from direct support. Under your reasoning the government could dictate the rules for all privatee organizations, religious or otherwise. Any privat organization should be able to set what ever rules they want, whether the general public agrees or not. People are free not to join. The only exception would be if any of their rules are criminal.
Roger
-----Original message-----
From: Donovan Arnold donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 16:12:33 -0800
To: Chasuk chasuk at gmail.com,  Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com, lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: [Spam 5.86] BE OUTSIDE!

> Roger,
>  
> I disagree that the government cannot impose rules on organizations within its boarders, especially ones that deal with children, for three major reasons.
>  
> First, it is an organization that is tax exempt and uses taxpayer dollars. It is unfair to force people to pay for an organization that discriminates against them and/or their children. 
>  
> Second, young men are very impressionable and are often times struggling with their sexual identities. Teaching children they are lesser persons because of their sexual feelings can lead to depression, mental illness, and even suicide. 
>  
> Finally, it teaches young men that discrimination against homosexuals is alright. This is going to make it difficult for them to get along with others in the work place, social settings, and it is going to make the lives of men and women that have to work with them more difficult. 
>  
> If this was an organization of adults, I might agree with you Roger, provided we took away all tax support. But we are dealing with children and teens, and that changes the rules as to what society can allow and not allow to happen to the children that are included and excluded from societal norms and the reasons why they are excluded and included. 
>  
> Best Regards,
>  
> Donovan
> 
> 
> --- On Fri, 1/30/09, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
> 
> From: lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: [Spam 5.86] BE OUTSIDE!
> To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com, "Chasuk" <chasuk at gmail.com>, "Joe Campbell" <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Date: Friday, January 30, 2009, 10:41 AM
> 
> I was never in the Boy Scouts. I was raised to far away from civilization for
> that. However I did spend practically all of my time outside. I think that the
> Boy Scots is a good organization and my son was in it. I don't care whether
> they are secular or non secular. I believe that as a private organization they
> have the right to set what ever requirements that they want. People that do not
> like it do not have to join. It is wrong for the government to try and impose
> rules on them.
> Roger
> -----Original message-----
> From: Donovan Arnold donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 19:38:42 -0800
> To: Chasuk chasuk at gmail.com,  Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: [Spam 5.86] BE OUTSIDE!
> 
> > Joe,
> >  
> > I think too, that the Scouts are in general a great learning tool for many
> young men. I also agree that teaching young men to discriminate by banning
> youths that may be gay or questioning their sexuality is wrong. I think they
> need to not be an organization about sex or sexual orientation, and instead be
> an organization that focuses on nature and community service, as they have
> always been. 
> >  
> > I was a scout for about two years. I didn't like it as much as Indian
> Guides. I thought Indian Guides was less formal and more creative. The problem
> was there was not enough kids to form a decent group in local enough area, so
> I moved in the Boy Scouts. It was fun, but too formal, in my opinion.  
> >  
> > Best Regards,
> >  
> > Donovan
> >  
> > Best Regards,
> >  
> > Donovan
> > 
> > --- On Thu, 1/29/09, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > From: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: [Spam 5.86] BE OUTSIDE!
> > To: "Chasuk" <chasuk at gmail.com>
> > Cc: "vision2020 at moscow.com" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > Date: Thursday, January 29, 2009, 2:34 PM
> > 
> > I don't want get controversial but the anti-gay comments have hurt,  
> > too. I was a scout. And odidnt mind the uniforms! Both my dad and  
> > brother were eagle scouts.
> > 
> > Joe Campbell
> > 
> > On Jan 29, 2009, at 1:44 PM, Chasuk <chasuk at gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 12:52, Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> I really like what the CiNN network is all about-getting kids
> into
> > >> nature.  But, speaking as a former professional Scout
> coordinator, it
> > >> seems a bit redundant.  We've had Girl and Boy Scouts for
> almost
> > 100
> > >> years doing just this.  The program is in place, the support
> network
> > >> has already been built, 100s of thousands of kids are
> participating
> > >> with the assistance of numerous volunteers, and many great camps
> > >> exist.  Why not support and grow what we already have?
> > >
> > > When I was a kid, my parents tried to involve me in Scouts many
> times,
> > > but I hated it.  I disliked then, and I dislike now, anything
> > > resembling merit badges.  If something is worth doing, it is worth
> > > doing for itself, and the ribbons and medals are condescending.
> > > Further, most of the merit-badge-earning activities I found pointless
> > > and tedious.
> > >
> > > I dislike that the Boy Scouts are not entirely secular, although the
> > > Girl Scouts gets this right.  I also think that the uniforms should
> > > go.  I know a couple of Boy Scouts, and they all look embarrassed by
> > > the uniforms.
> > >
> > > Anyway, those are my objections to Scouting.  Your mileage may vary
> > > (and probably will).
> > 
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> > 
> > 
> > 
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