[Vision2020] Why I (don't) Support Gay Marriage

Fri Aug 14 12:44:12 PDT 2009

No, what "Miss Hendrickson" and I and others want is for same-sex couples to enjoy the same legal rights as Jeff and I do.  And I'd like documentation from you of any church facing litigation or civil penalties for declining to marry -- in their church, as a religious ceremony -- same sex couples.  I would be opposed to forcing churches to do anything, like, for example, perform a marriage ceremony for a man and woman who have previously divorced under circumstances the church's leadership finds unBiblical.  No one forces churches to marry, baptize, hold funeral services for, or otherwise officiate at any ceremony, and they wouldn't if CIVIL law allowed for same-sex couples to marry CIVILLY, with the religious community they call home supporting them any way they choose to.  Or not.

Keely
www.keely-prevailingwinds.com

From: lockshop at pull.twcbc.com
To: philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 11:08:50 -0700
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Why I (don't) Support Gay Marriage

"You can marry the one adult you want 
to marry but Mo cannot. That is a clear double-standard. How is that not telling 
people who to marry?"

At best this would be an example of telling people who NOT to marry not who 
they must. In reality any group of people can get together for the ritual of 
their choice and refer to themselves however they wish. You just want the next 
step. Forcing the rest of society to acknowlage and support the fantasy. Miss 
Hendrickson has exactly the same right in this regard as I do.

g

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: 
  Joe 
  Campbell 
  To: the lockshop 
  Cc: g. crabtree ; <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
  Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 9:50 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Why I (don't) 
  Support Gay Marriage

  You keep bringing up the fact that something is or is not legal as 
  justification that it should or should not be legal. By that light, you now 
  have no complaint to offer in the smoking case. It IS illegal to smoke in 
  bars, so it should be! We're not deriving people of rights; we're just 
  following the law.

  You can marry the one adult you want to marry but Mo cannot. That is a 
  clear double-standard. How is that not telling people who to marry?

  As I said, it is a weird kind of political view that thinks smoking in 
  public can't be regulated by the government but marriage should be. And 
  whatever it is it is not pro-freedom.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 14, 2009, at 8:11 AM, "the lockshop" <lockshop at pull.twcbc.com> 
  wrote:

    That you don't understand comes as no big 
    suprise. In the first instance an existing right, the right to indulge in a 
    legal activity on private property, is stripped away at the insistance of a 
    small group of zealots (I recall no mention of communist influence on 
    my part) In the second, the government is NOT taking anything away. (from a 
    slightly different small group of zealots) They are also NOT telling anyone 
    who to marry. To claim they are is, as usual, silly, blatantly false, 
    and makes no sense.

    g

      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: 
      Joe Campbell 
      To: g. crabtree 
      Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com> 

      Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 7:12 
      AM
      Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Why I 
      Support Gay Marriage

      I don't understand someone who gets worked up because the local 
      government won't allow smoking in bars, who thinks that that is some kind 
      of communist influence, but who thinks the government CAN tell folks who 
      to marry, and anyone who says otherwise is acting like a child. It makes 
      no sense.

      Your pal, Joe 

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 14, 2009, at 6:51 AM, "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com> 
      wrote:

        "Are you suggesting that if 
        one doesn't have and answer to this question, then the state need not 
        allow the marriage?"

        No. I was suggesting that it would make for 
        a more useful and interesting discussion than falling back on the same 
        tactic that most 5 year olds use when told no. "But I want it!" and 
        "That's no fair" followed by a stomp of the foot quickly become tedious 
        and really do very little to further the conversation.

        g

          ----- Original Message ----- 
          From: 
          Joe Campbell 
          To: g. 
          crabtree 
          Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com> 

          Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 
          6:22 AM
          Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Why I 
          Support Gay Marriage

          Gary 
          wrote: "Why don't you explain to me all the myriad ways in which 
          you being able to marry your partner is a benefit to me and/or 
          society?" Can you answer this question, Gary? Are you suggesting that 
          if one doesn't have and answer to this question, then the state need 
          not allow the marriage? Should this be the standard for what the state 
          allows and what it doesn't e.g. whether it is a benefit to society? 
          Funny this didn't come up in the smoking issue!

          Your 
          pal, Joe

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 13, 2009, at 7:14 PM, "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com> 
          wrote:

          Why don't you explain to me all the 
            myriad ways in which you being able to marry your partner is a 
            benefit to me and/or society?"

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