[Vision2020] Say What?

[Paul Rumelhart]

OK, then.  It does sound like Gates' rights were violated.  Thank you 
for the research.

Paul

Sunil Ramalingam wrote:
> I mistakenly thought my last post would make it clear that Gates' acts 
> did not rise to criminal behavior, but I was apparently wrong.  So let 
> me just cut and paste some annotations from cases dealing with the MA 
> law that he was charged with violating:
>
>     Arrest under Massachusetts “idle and disorderly person” statute
>     was unlawful under Massachusetts law, where defendant was arrested
>     for yelling, screaming, swearing and generally causing a
>     disturbance but, though the yelling was undoubtedly loud enough to
>     attract the attention of other guests in hotel, it did not rise to
>     level of “riotous commotion” or “public nuisance.” U.S. v.
>     Pasqualino, D.Mass.1991, 768 F.Supp. 13.
>
> And –
>
>     Defendant who did not physically resist his arrest arising out of
>     a domestic violence incident could not be convicted of disorderly
>     conduct based solely on his loud and angry tirade, which included
>     profanities, directed at police officers as he was being escorted
>     to police cruiser, even if spectators gathered to watch defendant;
>     defendant did not make any threats or engage in violence, and his
>     speech did not constitute fighting words. Com. v. Mallahan (2008)
>     72 Mass.App.Ct. 1103, 889 N.E.2d 77, 2008 WL 2404550.
>
> And –
>
>     Defendant's conduct, namely, flailing his arms and shouting at
>     police, victim of recent assault, or both, after being told to
>     leave area by police, did not amount to “violent or tumultuous
>     behavior” within scope of disorderly conduct statute, absent any
>     claim that defendant's protestations constituted threat of
>     violence, or any evidence that defendant's flailing arms were
>     anything but physical manifestation of his agitation or that noise
>     and commotion caused by defendant's behavior was extreme. Com. v.
>     Lopiano (2004) 805 N.E.2d 522, 60 Mass.App.Ct. 723.
>
> Here is more from that case:
>
>     [Officer] Garrett asked the defendant to exit the vehicle. As the
>     defendant was getting out of the car, he “kept saying no problem
>     here, no problem here, everything is all set, no problem.” The
>     police advised the defendant that he would be summonsed to court
>     for assault and battery, that he was not to be arrested at
>     Carins's [the alleged victim] request, and that he had to leave
>     the motel parking lot. He began to walk away. [Officer] O’Connor
>     testified: “He took a few steps from me, ten steps, turned around,
>     began flailing his arms, yelling that I was violating his civil
>     rights.” He was advised a second time to leave, and the defendant
>     was “yelling at me, you're violating my civil rights, then he
>     began yelling at Ms. Carins, why are you doing this to me, you'll
>     never go through with this.” At that time, he was placed under
>     arrest. It is not disputed that only the defendant's conduct after
>     he left the car forms the basis of the disorderly conduct charge.
>     I won't pretend I have done extensive research on this, as I have
>     not.  But I think these cases make it pretty clear why Gates' case
>     was dismissed. I don't think he broke the law at all.
>
>     Now, simply because such behavior may be legal, I don't recommend
>     anyone engage in it. I try to advise people of their rights, but I
>     always tell them to do so politely. The people with the badges,
>     guns, and tasers may also be having a bad day, and while the
>     citizen might eventually be exonerated, the immediate future can
>     sometimes be quite unpleasant.
>     As I keep saying in this thread, bad manners are not criminal
>     offenses. Let me now add, good manners are often more helpful in
>     these situations
>
>     Sunil
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 18:05:43 -0700
> > From: godshatter at yahoo.com
> > To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
> > CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What?
> >
> > It depends upon whether Gates really was violating the law or not. Is
> > refusing to let someone who is technically breaking the law slide
> > because you are angry an abuse of your power? It's a dick move, sure,
> > but if Gates really was breaking the law then he can't exactly claim
> > abuse if he's arrested.
> >
> > I don't know the specifics of the law he was arrested for. Is it
> > disorderly conduct when you are on your front porch yelling at someone
> > who is on the public sidewalk? I don't know.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > Sunil Ramalingam wrote:
> > > As far as I'm concerned, pity has nothing to do with this. The issue
> > > is the unlawful arrest.
> > >
> > > http://volokh.com/posts/1248465451.shtml
> > >
> > > Both men let their anger override their judgment, but one had the
> > > power of the state behind him, and abused it.
> > >
> > > Sunil
> > >
>
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