[Vision2020] State Faculty Union Responds to Financial Crisis

Wed Apr 29 17:00:16 PDT 2009

And for the last time, I have no plan. My posts are a criticism of a  
plan, not a proposal.

Joe Campbell

On Apr 29, 2009, at 10:19 AM, "a" <smith at turbonet.com> wrote:

> The point that you continue to miss is that by asking ALL of Idaho's  
> taxpayers (as was the plan in the original post that several,  
> including yourself, thought was such a marvelous idea) to kick in to  
> prevent state employees from experiencing the pinch of a 3% cut back  
> you are placing a greater burden on many of the taxpayers then you  
> are the state employees. If the economy going south has hurt a  
> persons income by 10% taking another .5% to make it so others  
> experience a 0% reduction is blatantly "unfair." Enduring a 3%  
> reduction when other are dealing with far bigger hits to their  
> income is hardly "shouldering the burden alone."
>
> Now, as to your newly revised plan where by "you ask all state  
> employees to give 3% of their pay to help the some who are in danger  
> of loosing their jobs" This would be a matter for the state  
> employees to decide for themselves not I. I find it hard to believe  
> that 100% would agree and without that consensus It would strike me  
> as a classic example of the tyranny of democracy but since I am not  
> a member of the group my opinion on this plan counts for nothing.
>
> g
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joe Campbell
> To: g. crabtree
> Cc: a ; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 6:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] State Faculty Union Responds to Financial  
> Crisis
>
> It is not a plan. It is an argument about fairness. I don't see it  
> having any chance of happening, nor am I trying to make it happen.
>
> My point is only that it would be the fair thing to do and that it  
> is a better idea than the idea of asking state employees to shoulder  
> the burden alone.
>
> Think of it this way. Would you ever give up 3% of your pay to  
> another locksmith who was afraid of losing his job? No. But when you  
> ask all state employees to give 3% of their pay to help the some who  
> are in danger of loosing their jobs, you are in effect asking folks  
> to do something similar.
>
> The main point of my posts is that this is a bad and unfair plan.  
> Maybe my "plan" is bad too but at least it is fair!
>
> Joe Campbell
>
> On Apr 29, 2009, at 6:16 AM, "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>  
> wrote:
>
>> The point, originally, was that imposing additional tax on people  
>> who are already taking a hit from the economic down turn so that  
>> state employees won't be forced to do the same was a poorly  
>> conceived plan. Everything else was you being simple.
>>
>> g
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Joe Campbell
>> To: g. crabtree
>> Cc: a ; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 9:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] State Faculty Union Responds to Financial  
>> Crisis
>>
>> You are distorting my point, which was a simple one.
>>
>> Joe Campbell
>>
>> On Apr 28, 2009, at 7:40 PM, "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "If you can't see a connection between the anti-tax rhetoric of
>>> teabaggers like yourself and the fact that staff at UI and WSU will
>>> lose their jobs soon, that is not my fault."
>>>
>>> Once again you attempt to shift the argument to new ground. (a  
>>> familiar, albeit clumsy, tactic) So be it, please point out how  
>>> those of us who were expressing our dissatisfaction with federal  
>>> spending on 15 April caused the budget shortfall that has brought  
>>> about the need to implement cut backs at the local universities  
>>> today. Please explain how being unhappy that Our Beloved Leader  
>>> will increase the deficit by 2.3 trillion dollars has anything to  
>>> do with the current need for 3% cut to employees wages to keep the  
>>> '09/10 budget in check. Please show me the big tax reduction that  
>>> protesters rammed down the throat of legislators in Boise that  
>>> will necessitate the mass lay offs you speak of.
>>>
>>> The FACT that tax revenue in Idaho is down and cuts need to be  
>>> made has nothing to do with the events of two weeks ago. Trying to  
>>> bring it in as a factor is disingenuous. Or were you shooting for  
>>> some sort of primal cave man logic?
>>>
>>> taxes = all that is good (puppies, jobs, world peace)
>>>
>>> people in favor of less tax = all that is evil (cancer,  
>>> unemployment, terrorism)
>>>
>>> If so, congratulations. Who could argue with reasoning like that.
>>>
>>> g
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Joe Campbell" <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
>>> To: "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
>>> Cc: "a" <smith at turbonet.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 5:44 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] State Faculty Union Responds to  
>>> Financial Crisis
>>>
>>> > The problem is a problem about state employees, Crabtree. Most  
>>> of the
>>> > money for the salaries at issue comes from state revenues.
>>> >
>>> > If you can't see a connection between the anti-tax rhetoric of
>>> > teabaggers like yourself and the fact that staff at UI and WSU  
>>> will
>>> > lose their jobs soon, that is not my fault, and I will not pay the
>>> > price for your ignorance, at least not alone.
>>> >
>>> > The connection is really very simple: these are some of the ways  
>>> in
>>> > which your tax dollars are used, to pay the salaries of Roger's  
>>> wife,
>>> > Paul, and folks like myself. When you reduce taxes, many such  
>>> people
>>> > -- of which there are a lot in the area -- lose their jobs. This  
>>> is
>>> > OUR problem, not my problem.
>>> >
>>> > Joe Campbell
>>> >
>>> =======================================================
>>> =======================================================
>>> >
>
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