<html><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>And for the last time, I have no plan. My posts are a criticism of a plan, not a proposal. </div><div><br>Joe Campbell</div><div><br>On Apr 29, 2009, at 10:19 AM, "a" <<a href="mailto:smith@turbonet.com">smith@turbonet.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<div>
<div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">The point that you continue to miss is that by
asking ALL of Idaho's taxpayers (as was the plan in the original post that
several, including yourself, thought was such a marvelous idea) to kick in
to prevent state employees from experiencing the pinch of a 3% cut back you are
placing a greater burden on many of the taxpayers then you are the state
employees. If the economy going south has hurt a persons income by 10% taking
another .5% to make it so others experience a 0% reduction is blatantly
"unfair." Enduring a 3% reduction when other are dealing with far bigger hits to
their income is hardly "shouldering the burden alone."</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Now, as to your newly revised plan where by "<font face="Times New Roman"><em>you </em><font size="3"><em>ask all state
employees to give 3% of their pay to help the some who are in danger of loosing
their jobs"</em> </font><font face="Arial" size="2">This would be a matter for the
state employees to decide for themselves not I. I find it hard to believe that
100% would agree and without that consensus It would strike me as a classic
example of the tyranny of democracy but since I am not a member of the group my
opinion on this plan counts for nothing.</font></font></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">g</font></div></div></div>
<blockquote style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><b>From:</b>
<a title="philosopher.joe@gmail.com" href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">Joe
Campbell</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="jampot@roadrunner.com" href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">g. crabtree</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Cc:</b> <a title="smith@turbonet.com" href="mailto:smith@turbonet.com">a</a> ; <a title="vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com>"><<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>></a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 29, 2009 6:35
AM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] State Faculty
Union Responds to Financial Crisis</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>It is not a plan. It is an argument about fairness. I don't see it having
any chance of happening, nor am I trying to make it happen.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>My point is only that it would be the fair thing to do and that it is a
better idea than the idea of asking state employees to shoulder the burden
alone.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Think of it this way. Would you ever give up 3% of your pay to another
locksmith who was afraid of losing his job? No. But when you ask all state
employees to give 3% of their pay to help the some who are in danger of
loosing their jobs, you are in effect asking folks to do something
similar.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>The main point of my posts is that this is a bad and unfair plan. Maybe
my "plan" is bad too but at least it is fair!<br><br>Joe Campbell</div>
<div><br>On Apr 29, 2009, at 6:16 AM, "g. crabtree" <<a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com"><a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">jampot@roadrunner.com</a></a>>
wrote:<br><br></div>
<div></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">The point, originally, was that imposing
additional tax on people who are already taking a hit from the economic down
turn so that state employees won't be forced to do the same was a
poorly conceived plan. Everything else was you being simple.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">g</font></div>
<blockquote dir="ltr" style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><b>From:</b>
<a title="philosopher.joe@gmail.com" href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com">Joe Campbell</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="jampot@roadrunner.com" href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">g. crabtree</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Cc:</b> <a title="smith@turbonet.com" href="mailto:smith@turbonet.com">a</a> ; <a title="vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com>"><</a><a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a></a>>
</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 28, 2009 9:40
PM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] State
Faculty Union Responds to Financial Crisis</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>You are distorting my point, which was a simple one.<br><br>Joe
Campbell</div>
<div><br>On Apr 28, 2009, at 7:40 PM, "g. crabtree" <<a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com"></a><a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com"><a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">jampot@roadrunner.com</a></a>>
wrote:<br><br></div>
<div></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div><font size="2"><em>"</em></font><font size="3"><em>If you can't see a
connection between the anti-tax rhetoric of <br>teabaggers like
yourself and the fact that staff at UI and WSU will <br>lose their
jobs soon, that is not my fault."</em></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"><em></em></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Once again you attempt to shift the
argument to new ground. (a familiar, albeit clumsy, tactic) So be
it, please point out how those of us who were expressing our
dissatisfaction with federal spending on 15 April caused the budget
shortfall that has brought about the need to implement cut backs at the
local universities today. Please explain how being unhappy that Our
Beloved Leader will increase the deficit by 2.3 trillion dollars has
anything to do with the current need for 3% cut to employees
wages to keep the '09/10 budget in check. </font><font face="Arial" size="2">Please show me the big tax reduction that protesters rammed down
the throat of legislators in Boise that will necessitate the mass lay
offs you speak of.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">The FACT that tax revenue in Idaho is down
and cuts need to be made has nothing to do with the events of two weeks
ago. Trying to bring it in as a factor is disingenuous. Or were you
shooting for some sort of primal cave man logic?</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">taxes = all that is good (puppies, jobs,
world peace)</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">people in favor of less tax = all that is
evil (cancer, unemployment, terrorism)</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">If so, congratulations. Who could argue
with reasoning like that.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">g</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">----- Original Message ----- </font>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">From: "Joe Campbell" <</font><a href="mailto:philosopher.joe@gmail.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">philosopher.joe@gmail.com</font></a><font face="Arial" size="2">></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">To: "g. crabtree" <</font><a href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">jampot@roadrunner.com</font></a><font face="Arial" size="2">></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Cc: "a" <</font><a href="mailto:smith@turbonet.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">smith@turbonet.com</font></a><font face="Arial" size="2">>;
<</font><a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><font face="Arial" size="2">vision2020@moscow.com</font></a><font face="Arial" size="2">></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 5:44
PM</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Subject: Re: [Vision2020] State Faculty
Union Responds to Financial Crisis</font></div></div>
<div><font face="Arial"><br><font size="2"></font></font></div><font face="Arial" size="2">> The problem is a problem about state employees,
Crabtree. Most of the <br>> money for the salaries at issue
comes from state revenues.<br>> <br>> If you can't see a
connection between the anti-tax rhetoric of <br>> teabaggers
like yourself and the fact that staff at UI and WSU will <br>>
lose their jobs soon, that is not my fault, and I will not pay the
<br>> price for your ignorance, at least not alone.<br>> <br>>
The connection is really very simple: these are some of the ways
in <br>> which your tax dollars are used, to pay the salaries
of Roger's wife, <br>> Paul, and folks like myself. When you
reduce taxes, many such people <br>> -- of which there are a
lot in the area -- lose their jobs. This is <br>> OUR problem,
not my problem.<br>> <br>> Joe Campbell<br>> <br></font><font face="Arial" size="2">=======================================================<br></font><font face="Arial" size="2">=======================================================<br>></font>
</div></blockquote></blockquote></div></blockquote>
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