[Vision2020] State Faculty Union Responds to Financial Crisis

Tue Apr 28 23:09:01 PDT 2009

Joe,

Being new to this topic, busy time and all, will raising taxes work in the recession that we are currently in work. I mean aren't we all struggling? I would love to help my neighbor out but I'm trying to live myself. Our president has stated how we all need to come together, sometimes with sacrifice, so should we rally for teachers but not loggers and plumbers?

Matt

> From: philosopher.joe at gmail.com
> To: jampot at roadrunner.com
> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 17:44:57 -0700
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] State Faculty Union Responds to Financial Crisis
> 
> The problem is a problem about state employees, Crabtree. Most of the 
> money for the salaries at issue comes from state revenues.
> 
> If you can't see a connection between the anti-tax rhetoric of 
> teabaggers like yourself and the fact that staff at UI and WSU will 
> lose their jobs soon, that is not my fault, and I will not pay the 
> price for your ignorance, at least not alone.
> 
> The connection is really very simple: these are some of the ways in 
> which your tax dollars are used, to pay the salaries of Roger's wife, 
> Paul, and folks like myself. When you reduce taxes, many such people 
> -- of which there are a lot in the area -- lose their jobs. This is 
> OUR problem, not my problem.
> 
> Joe Campbell
> 
> On Apr 28, 2009, at 5:26 PM, "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> > I take it the concept of reduced tax revenue due to a downturn in the
> > economy is completely lost on you.
> >
> > Please explain the inherent fairness of increasing the tax burden on 
> > a workman/merchant whose income is already down anywhere from 5 to, 
> > in some cases, 35% or more so that state employees are spared a 3% 
> > cut? Is there any problem for which a tax increase wouldn't be you 
> > first solution?
> >
> >
> > Leaping to the silly conclusion that I hate state employees for 
> > political reasons is quite an illogical leap even by your previously 
> > established reactionary standards. Aside from a few ivory tower 
> > types, statistically speaking, most of the employees are likely to 
> > be of my own political stripe what with this being Idaho and all.
> >
> >
> > g
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Campbell" <philosopher.joe at gmail.com 
> > >
> > To: "a" <smith at turbonet.com>
> > Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:07 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] State Faculty Union Responds to Financial 
> > Crisis
> >
> >
> >> Gary,
> >>
> >> The people likely to suffervthe most here are not the ones you hate
> >> for political reasons but staff, like Roger's wife. The question is:
> >> who should shoulder the burden of trying to keep as much staff as
> >> possible? Your answer is, the folks you hate for political reasons
> >> (who you seem to think are over paid). My answer is all taxpayers.
> >>
> >> Joe Campbell
> >>
> >> On Apr 28, 2009, at 9:38 AM, "a" <smith at turbonet.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> One obvious problem with this approach would be when it comes to the
> >>> states independant merchants and tradesmen. In a down economy they
> >>> are, in almost all cases, already taking more than a 3% hit. After
> >>> all, why do you think Idaho's revenues are down? Throwing an
> >>> additional tax on people who's income is already reduced to keep
> >>> government employees living in the manner to which they have become
> >>> accustomed is unlikely to go over particularly well.
> >>>
> >>> g
> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Campbell" <philosopher.joe at gmail.com
> >>> >
> >>> To: "Dickow" <dickow at turbonet.com>
> >>> Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 5:49 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] State Faculty Union Responds to Financial
> >>> Crisis
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> This is a great post. I wonder why no one has responded.
> >>>>
> >>>> Joe Campbell
> >>>>
> >>>> On Apr 27, 2009, at 12:23 PM, Dickow <dickow at turbonet.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> The problem in my book concerning a 3% cut to state employees is
> >>>>> that it is, in effect, a direct tax on a special segment of the
> >>>>> state's population. The state would be making up its shortfalls at
> >>>>> the expense of state employees. I think that the state shouldn't 
> >>>>> be
> >>>>> thought of as an entity like a company, which might indeed have to
> >>>>> trim their employees in some form or other. But in in the case of
> >>>>> the state, the employees would be making a sacrifice that directly
> >>>>> benefits other people in the state, not the owners of a somel
> >>>>> corporation. A more equitable solution to the state's budgetary 
> >>>>> woes
> >>>>> would be to impose a tax of some kind on everyone in the state.
> >>>>> Then, everyone might have to kick back 1/2 percent or something, 
> >>>>> and
> >>>>> all would be well. But alas, raising taxes is political NO NO!
> >>>>> And... by the way, whatever happened to the state's Emergency 
> >>>>> Fund.
> >>>>> did they spend that already?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Bob Dickow, troublemaker
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original message-----
> >>>>> From: Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com
> >>>>> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 09:37:18 -0700
> >>>>> To: lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com
> >>>>> Subject: [Spam] Re: [Vision2020] State Faculty Union Responds to
> >>>>> Financial Crisis
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm sorry to hear about your wife's situation, Roger. Staff is
> >>>>>> getting
> >>>>>> the worst of it at WSU, too.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> But I still think Nick has a point. Here is one way to put it.
> >>>>>> Would
> >>>>>> you or anyone else on this list be willing to "cut" your pay by
> >>>>>> giving
> >>>>>> 3% more to the state of ID to help prevent folks at UI from being
> >>>>>> fired? If you and others say "yes," then I'm on board, as well!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Joe Campbell
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Apr 27, 2009, at 10:03 AM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Joe
> >>>>>>> I do no want you or any one else to lose their job. I think that
> >>>>>>> pay
> >>>>>>> cuts are preferable to layoffs.It is inevitably that some 
> >>>>>>> programs
> >>>>>>> will be cut. there are no students or very few for a class it 
> >>>>>>> will
> >>>>>>> be cut. My wife is staff in the PSES department at UI. She runs
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> Soils Pedology Lab. She will receive an award for 40 years of
> >>>>>>> service today. She puts in 10 to 12 hours a day and does not get
> >>>>>>> comp. time. She had cancer in 2003. She had surgery, chemo,
> >>>>>>> radiation and the whole ball of wax. She is still suffering 
> >>>>>>> from
> >>>>>>> the after affects. She takes a lot of Ibuprofen and diuretics to
> >>>>>>> keep on going. She is not yet eligible for full Social Security.
> >>>>>>> <snip>....
> >>>>>
> >>>>> =======================================================
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> >>>
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