[Vision2020] "Harsh" Interrogations -As ye sow, so shall you
bear at moscow.com
bear at moscow.com
Thu Apr 23 20:00:16 PDT 2009
And How soon we forget:
November 29th, 2007:
(AP) Republican presidential candidate John McCain reminded people Thursday that some
Japanese were tried and hanged for torturing American prisoners during World War II with
techniques that included waterboarding.
"There should be little doubt from American history that we consider that as torture
otherwise
we wouldn't have tried and convicted Japanese for doing that same thing to Americans,"
McCain
said during a news conference.
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> You suffer from the same misconception that gets so many of my clients in
t> rouble: Your opinions do not reflect the law.
>
> Your understandings appear to be based on your wholesale acceptance of the
> rationales offered by war criminals to cover their asses. Why aren't you
s> o blindly accepting the rest of the time?
>
> Sunil
>
>
> > From: jampot at roadrunner.com
> > To: godshatter at yahoo.com; lfalen at turbonet.com; bear at moscow.com;
vis> ion2020 at moscow.com
> > Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 19:16:08 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] "Harsh" Interrogations -As ye sow, so shall
y> ou
> >
> > This seems to me to be a fair question. If it's considered torture to
put> a
> > guy in a box with a caterpillar, what about a cell with a fellow
terror> ist?
> > It's really just a matter of degree. If depriving an unlawful combatant
o> f
> > sleep is torture what about not allowing the poor dears to sleep in on
t> he
> > weekends? Stress positions criminal? What about not providing
orthopedic>
> > queen sized beds and massaging barcoloungers? Pouring water on their
ugly>
> > mugs too harsh? What about insisting that the prisoners take a monthly
> > shower whether they need it of not?
> >
> > Rape as torture? To be sure although I'll take it over having my skin
> > removed with eyebrow tweezers, being lowered into a chipper shredder
up> to
> > my navel, being beaten with rods till the number of broken bones
exceed> s
> > ones I.Q. (I know, I know a few fingers and a rib in my particular
cas> e) a
> > week or two of ground glass suppers and battery acid enemas or being
rubb> ed
> > in fat and roasted till your so overcooked the New York Times food
critic>
> > would send you back to the chef and write a scathing review in the
Sunday>
> > style edition.
> >
> > Who ever remarked that there ought to be a line over which we do not go
i> s
> > correct. There is a difference between a harsh interrogation and
torture.> In
> > my opinion we did a pretty fine job of walking that line. Had the
> > interrogators indeed been sadistic torturers and not just asking
poignant>
> > questions firmly we should be seeing a trail of corpses and cripples,
n> ot a
> > gaggle of surly Sunni's and snippy Shiites anxious to be released and
tak> e a
> > second shot at killing and maiming Americans. It's my understanding that
> the
> > interrogation of these criminals resulted in good information and saved
> > lives and the men who brought us that result should be commended, not
> > condemned.
> >
> > g
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <bear at moscow.com>
> > To: "Paul Rumelhart" <godshatter at yahoo.com>; "lfalen"
<lfalen at turbonet.> com>;
> > <bear at moscow.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 4:28 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] "Harsh" Interrogations -As ye sow, so shall
y> ou
> >
> >
> > > Roger,
> > >
> > > WHERE do you draw the line as far as "technique" is concerned?
> > > IF the alleged terrorist is a woman, is it ok to rape her till she
te> lls
> > > us about the plot
> > > to bomb
> > > LA?
> > > Or a man for that matter?
> > >
> > > AND remember, IF it's justified for the US to do it, it is
justifie> d for
> > > everyone else
> > > too!
> > >
> > > The reason it's referred to as a "slippery slope" is that the only
> > > direction to go is DOWN
> > > HILL!
> > >
> > >
-----------------------------------------------------------------------> --------
> > >
> > >> That's an extremely dangerous point of view, Roger. How far do you
> take
> > >> it? It's possible that daily random inspections of citizen's houses
b> y
> > >> SWAT teams could yield some data. Or that torturing every Muslim in
> > >> America would also yield results. The Internet could be used to pass
> > >> encrypted information between terrorist cells, maybe it should be
sh> ut
> > >> down? Perhaps a "shoot-on-sight" curfew would help make us safer from
> > >> the threat of terrorism?
> > >>
> > >> I'm tired of this country being run by a bunch of cowards. Draw a
mor> al
> > >> line in the sand, and stick to it. Do what is right because it is
> > >> right, not because it is expedient.
> > >>
> > >> Paul
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> lfalen wrote:
> > >> > Bear
> > >> > You are wrong on this.
> > >> > Because a confession was extracted fron this lady does not mean
that>
> > >> > she was a spy.
> > > What
> > > we may have done at GITMO had no bearing on how Iran conducts
> > > interrogations. They would
> > > use brutal tactics no matter what we do.
> > >> > As to our security I believe the following:
> > >> > 1. If an interrogator thinks that there is good reason to believe
a>
> > >> > detainee has
> > > information of an impending attack and does not use what ever means
is>
> > > necessary to obtain
> > > that information and
> > >> > 2 There is a subsequent attack that results in a loss of life.then
> > >> > 3. Those interrogators should be prosecuted for dereliction of duty.
> > >> > Former CIA Director Casey said that over 50% of the valid
informatio> n
> > >> > about al-Quaeda
> > > came from detainees and that an attack on L.A was thwarted by
informati> on
> > > obtained from
> > > KSM.
> > >> > Roger
> > >> >
> > >> > -----Original message-----
> > >> > From: bear at moscow.cotwo year period? How about ten years?m
> > >> > Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 20:50:18 -0700
> > >> > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >> > Subject: [Vision2020] "Harsh" Interrogations -As ye sow, so shall
> you
> > >> > reep
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >> Well, what we have said is fine, is now coming back to bite us.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> American-Iranian journalist Roxana Saberi was sentenced to
eight>
> > >> >> years' jail on
> > > Saturday
> > >> >> after
> > >> >> being convicted in a secret trial of spying for the United States.
> Her
> > >> >> Iranian-born
> > >> >> father, Reza
> > >> >> Saberi, says she may have been tricked into a confession,
belie> ving
> > >> >> she would be
> > > released
> > >> >> if
> > >> >> she co-operated with the authorities. He said his daughter was so
> > >> >> depressed by her
> > >> >> sentence -
> > >> >> the harshest ever given to a dual national on security charges in
> > >> >> Iran - that she is
> > >> >> threatening
> > >> >> to go on hunger strike.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Will they force feed her like we have force fed the prisoners at
> > >> >> Guantánamo Bay
> > > Detention
> > >> >> Camp when they have gone on hunger strikes? IF they do, what
make> s us
> > >> >> think we have a
> > >> >> right
> > >> >> to object?
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Did they use enhanced interrogation techniques to discover that
she>
> > >> >> was a spy? And
> > >> >> remember,
> > >> >> she was arrested for SPYING. If she was in the United States could
> we
> > >> >> have sued
> > > enhanced
> > >> >> interrogation techniques? US Supreme Court Justice Antonin
Scalia>
> > >> >> said on BBC Radio
> > > 4
> > >> >> that
> > >> >> since these methods are not intended to punish they do not violate
> the
> > >> >> Eighth
> > > Amendment
> > > to
> > >> >>
> > >> >> the United States Constitution, barring "cruel and unusual
> > >> >> punishment", and as such
> > > may
> > >
> > >> >> not
> > >> >> be unconstitutional.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Well, we started this dog fight, now we pay. How do we get
back> on the
> > >> >> moral high
> > > ground
> > >> >> where this kind of behavior from ANY GOVERNMENT is wrong? I
believe> it
> > >> >> starts with
> > > the
> > >
> > >> >> indictment and arrest of George W. Bush et al. Or don't they
think>
> > >> >> they'd get a fair
> > >> >> trial? They
> > >> >> sure as hell would get better treatment awaiting trial than they
ga> ve!
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> ---------------------------------------------
> > >> >> This message was sent by First Step Internet.
> > >> >> http://www.fsr.com/
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
======================> =========================> ========
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> > >> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > >> > http://www.fsr.net
> > >> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >> >
======================> =========================> ========
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------
> > > This message was sent by First Step Internet.
> > > http://www.fsr.com/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> > >
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> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > > http://www.fsr.net
> > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >
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> >
> >
> >
========================> =========================> ======
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >
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>
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