[Vision2020] Six gay men shot to death in Iraq

Tue Apr 7 14:45:15 PDT 2009

Bear,

Glad we agree on some things. 

"Are you willing to give the UN the support both politically and financially that it needs
to take substantive action?"

No, scrap the UN. 

  Did you know that the US will not commit troops to a UN force unless 
there is an American in Command? The UN has no standing military force, which it needs to do such actions as you advocate."

Good

 " Darfur,  one of the worst humanitarian disasters in the
world. Over 2.5 million people have been displaced since the beginning of the conflict. Many of these refugees have gone into camps where emergency aid has created conditions that, although extremely basic, are better than in the villages, which offer no protection against the various militias that operate in the region. WHY don't we do something about that? My guess is because they are poor, they have no resources, and they are black."

Because people are against miltary action unless there is something in it for them personally.  

"And we also agree about the setting of folks on fire, rape and shootings. Now, where are
the 
POLICE departments in those countries? Those are conditions that are allowed to exist by
the 
people in those countries. Help, YES........ lone intervention - NO."

We have to have permission of a committee, which consists of the offenders, to do what is right? Poppycock!

"A bit fuzzy on why we went to war against the British.  The Tea Tax, the Stamp Acts etc
 are 
little understood by most Americans today, and DID NOT effect the average person back in
the 
1770's. The drink of choice in those days by the majority of the public was cider. The tax

effected the wealthy. Same thing with the Stamp Acts......... they effected the wealthy,
the 
stamps were mainly on legal documents like land transfers. And don't you think that the
British 
tax payers got sick and tired of paying for the defense of North America without the
Americans 
paying anything? In India, salt played a small part, but again, the Indians were oppressed
for 
the sake of the wealthy."

Taxing the rich hurts the poor, sh*t always rolls downhill. The King removed many of the rights that Royal Subjects ( many are listed in the Bill of Rights) had enjoyed for centuries and overly taxed Colony profits which stiffeled economic progress and expansion, in order to finance the King's elective wars across the globe and with France. America suffered economicly for the recklessness of an incomptent King and many people didn't want to pay for it. 

"And when you talk about 100s of millions suffering, I also agree with you, but at what
point does it become strictly a US problem as opposed to a world problem? Concerted WORLD military action, YES.  American adventurism and lone military action, NO"

It is a world problem. But again, most people and countries aren't interested in correcting injustices unless they directly benifiet or profit from it personally. If there were diamonds, gold or oil under the feet of the people in Darfar, we would be there in a heartbeat, along with the UK, Germany and Russia, to correct the injustice. 

The UN security council includes, China, and can veto any action. Would China be interested in giving military power to stop human abuses and injustices? I think not. 

While I am interested in bringing Cheney, Bush, and some of his cronies to Justice, I am not interested in your subjecting the US to World Courts, Opinions, and Military. I want the US to be most the powerful, and be independent to make its own decisons. Why? Because I don't want to be under the thumb of China, Russia, France, and Germany. Many people have died protecting our independence and right to self rule, so pardon me if I am unwilling to just piss it away to some other nations which are wrong ten more often than us. 

Best Regards,

Donovan

--- On Tue, 4/7/09, bear at moscow.com <bear at moscow.com> wrote:

From: bear at moscow.com <bear at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Six gay men shot to death in Iraq
To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>, "Paul Rumelhart" <godshatter at yahoo.com>, vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Tuesday, April 7, 2009, 2:11 PM

Donovan - WOW!  A thoughtful and well thought out comment! 

Are you willing to give the UN the support both politically and financially that it needs
to take 
substantive action?  Did you know that the US will not commit troops to a UN force unless 
there is an American in Command? The UN has no standing military force, which it needs to
do 
such actions as you advocate.  Darfur,  one of the worst humanitarian disasters in the
world. 
Over 2.5 million people have been displaced since the beginning of the conflict. Many of
these 
refugees have gone into camps where emergency aid has created conditions that, although 
extremely basic, are better than in the villages, which offer no protection against the
various 
militias that operate in the region. WHY don't we do something about that? My guess is 
because they are poor, they have no resources, and they are black. 

We agree that 9/11 was an excuse and "We the People...." were sold a bill of goods! So,
now 
that  King George is out of office, where is the plan to bring him and a cabal to justice?

And as to WWII, I agree again with you! And I would remind people that we didn't declare
war 
on Germany until AFTER they declared war on US. We initially declared war only on Japan.

And we also agree about the setting of folks on fire, rape and shootings. Now, where are
the 
POLICE departments in those countries? Those are conditions that are allowed to exist by
the 
people in those countries. Help, YES........ lone intervention - NO.

A bit fuzzy on why we went to war against the British.  The Tea Tax, the Stamp Acts etc
 are 
little understood by most Americans today, and DID NOT effect the average person back in
the 
1770's. The drink of choice in those days by the majority of the public was cider. The tax

effected the wealthy. Same thing with the Stamp Acts......... they effected the wealthy,
the 
stamps were mainly on legal documents like land transfers. And don't you think that the
British 
tax payers got sick and tired of paying for the defense of North America without the
Americans 
paying anything? In India, salt played a small part, but again, the Indians were oppressed
for 
the sake of the wealthy.

And when you talk about 100s of millions suffering, I also agree with you, but at what
point 
does it become strictly a US problem as opposed to a world problem? Concerted WORLD 
military action, YES.  American adventurism and lone military action, NO.

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