[Vision2020] Say What?

[Donovan Arnold]

Bear,
 
I am saddened for you that you think Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, John Adam, Thomas Jefferson, and our founding fathers were "terrorists". 
 
But again, I advise you to re-examine your history books if you don't think there were elected Representatives of the original colonies when they created the US Constitution and the Articles of Confederation. The legislatures of the varies states elected them. Further, the Crown was not elected, that was representing and denying them their basic civil rights granted to other subjects of the Crown. 
 
I also invite you to examine your believe that the US threw out elected democratic leaders in Iraq and Afghanistan. 
 
The US government has every right to attack Afghanistan or any nation that attacks it. It had every right to detain terrorists for the protection of its people. Obama agrees, because they are still there in Cuba. 
 
Many of the"terrorists" that so many liberals feel sorry for in the Guantanamo Bay Prison are actually better off there than in the countries willing to take them. 
 
 
Best Regards,
 
Donovan
 


--- On Wed, 4/1/09, bear at moscow.com <bear at moscow.com> wrote:


From: bear at moscow.com <bear at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What?
To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>, "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>, "vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>, "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>, bear at moscow.com
Date: Wednesday, April 1, 2009, 3:10 PM


Donovan,

We finally agree on something!  

The executive branch didn't wait for a decision by the Federal Courts before it decided
that the 
POW's were "terrorists" or were national security threats. They could have by the way
gotten an 
advisory opinion. They just rounded them up and tossed them into Guantánamo Bay Detention 
Camp, which in their convoluted logic put the prisoners  OUTSIDE the jurisdiction of US
Federal 
law, even though they were/are being held on a US military base. The Federal Courts have 
disagreed. The executive branch  did so at its peril, as there are now international
indictments  
being looked into and I also fully expect that there will be US Federal criminal charges
brought 
against those responsible.  Which, by the way is MORE  judicial oversight than they gave
the 
poor SOB's that they locked up there! And just wait till the civil suits start rolling in!



And I agree with your definition of a terrorist as someone who uses violence or threatens
the
use of  violence, or someone who assists those, as a means of achieving a
political or social goal, without the backing of an elected group of people
or legitimate government.

WHO in Iraq or Afghanistan elected the US to do what we did or are doing there? No one! So
by 
your definition, WE are the terrorists in both Iraq and Afghanistan. And we did over throw

legitimately elected governments to do that. You may not agree with the kind of
governments 
that were elected, and you might not like the way they were elected, but does the US have
any 
say so in HOW other countries elect they governments?

But that's ok, since again, based on your definition, we were founded as a nation by
terrorists.
There was NO election or legitimate government of the 13  separate colonies so the folks
that 
formed the colonial armed forces were in fact, again, according to your definition,
terrorists.
Is there any doubts in your mind that "traitors" like Ben Franklin and George Washington
would 
have been hung for treason?

My whole point is that one man's terrorist is another mans Freedom Fighter. Both Nelson 
Mandella in Africa, and Menachem Begin started out as terrorists.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bear,  
> The executive branch doesn't wait for a decision to be made by a US
Federal Court to hold a prisoner of war or a person of national security.
 
To me a terrorist is someone who uses violence or threatens the
use of  violence, or someone who assists those, as a means of achieving a
political or social goal, without the backing of an elected group of people
or legitimate government.  
> Best Regards,  
> Donovan



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