[Vision2020] Have to be sure who was waterboarded

[Nick Gier]

Hi Roger:

After all the years of debating this issue and 
clarifying my position, I can imagine that I can 
"come any more clean" on the abortion 
issue.  What more do you want me to 
do?  Conceding my position is not an option 
unless you can show me where my arguments have gone wrong.

Since there is no evidence whatsoever of any 
qualities that the early fetus has that animal 
fetuses do not have, the burden of proof is on 
the pro-lifer to give an argument why there 
should be a moral and legal difference during the first two trimesters.

Please give us your argument, not just as assertion, but an argument.

Nick

At 10:37 AM 9/2/2008, you wrote:
>Nick I'll grant that there can be a lot of 
>disinformation, but that is not a reason to 
>forgo it. As I have said before I hope that is 
>what I would do, if I were in that position. I 
>have only supported it in extreme situations 
>where there is a possibility of gaining 
>information that might save lives. I believe 
>that is a more moral positon than if not doing 
>so  miight result if in the death of an untold 
>number of people.  As to coming clean that would 
>also apply to your positon on abortion. How 
>about going back to something we can basicly 
>agree on , such as China ad Tibet. Roger 
>-----Original message----- From: 
>nickgier at adelphia.net Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 
>16:00:46 -0700 To: lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com 
>Subject: Re: Have to be sure who was 
>waterboarded > Hi Roger: > > Thanks for 
>identifying two of the three, but you have not 
>demonstrated that Khalid Sheikh Mohammad 
>provided any actionable intelligence.  Just 
>repeating the Bush administration's claim that 
>they did does not cut it, especially after its 
>track record. > > What came out of Mohammad's 
>interrogation was a long list of confessions, 
>many of which he could not possibly had anything 
>to do with.  Here is one paragraph from 
>Wikipeida. > > One CIA official cautioned that 
>"many of Mohammed's claims during interrogation 
>were 'white noise' designed to send the U.S. on 
>wild goose chases or to get him through the 
>day's interrogation session." For example 
>according to Michigan Rep. Mike Rogers, a former 
>FBI agent and the top Republican on the 
>terrorism panel of the House Intelligence 
>Committee, he has admitted responsibility for 
>the Bali nightclub bombing, but his involvement 
>"could have been as small as arranging a safe 
>house for travel. It could have been arranging 
>finance.” Mohammed also made the admission 
>that he was "responsible for the 1993 World 
>Trade Center Operation", which killed six and 
>injured more than 1,000 when a bomb was 
>detonated in an underground garage, Mohammed did 
>not plan the attack, but he may have supported 
>it. Dr. Michael Welner noted that by offering 
>legitimate information to interrogators, 
>Mohammed had secured the leverage to provide 
>disinformation as well.[47] > > Getting you to 
>come clean about waterboarding as illegal and 
>immoral is not BS.  This is something that 
>previous U.S. governments prosecuted both 
>Americans and Japanese for.  Were they mistaken 
>in following both moral and international 
>law?  I'm shocked by your stubbornness on this 
>issue. > > Thanks for the dialogue, > > Nick > 
>Nick > Three have been three people that the 
>Bush Administration has acknowledged being > 
>weatherboarded. Zubaydah, Khalid Sheikh Mohammad 
>and one other. The one I am > referring to is 
>KSM. He is thought bo be to organizer of 9/11 
>and also > personally beheaded Daniel Pearl. > 
>Roger > > 
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"Truth is the summit of being; justice is the 
application of it to human affairs."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson

"Abstract truth has no value unless it incarnates 
in human beings who represent it, by proving their readiness to die for it."
  --Mohandas Gandhi

"Modern physics has taught us that the nature of 
any system cannot be discovered by dividing it 
into its component parts and studying each part 
by itself. . . .We must keep our attention fixed 
on the whole and on the interconnection between 
the parts. The same is true of our intellectual 
life. It is impossible to make a clear cut 
between science, religion, and art. The whole is 
never equal simply to the sum of its various parts." --Max Planck

Nicholas F. Gier
Professor Emeritus, Department of Philosophy, University of Idaho
1037 Colt Rd., Moscow, ID 83843
http://www.home.roadrunner.com/~nickgier/home.htm
208-882-9212/FAX 885-8950
President, Idaho Federation of Teachers, AFL-CIO
http://www.roadrunner.com/~nickgier/ift.htm

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