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Hi Roger:<br><br>
After all the years of debating this issue and clarifying my position, I
can imagine that I can "come any more clean" on the abortion
issue. What more do you want me to do? Conceding my position
is not an option unless you can show me where my arguments have gone
wrong.<br><br>
Since there is no evidence whatsoever of any qualities that the early
fetus has that animal fetuses do not have, the burden of proof is on the
pro-lifer to give an argument why there should be a moral and legal
difference during the first two trimesters.<br><br>
Please give us your argument, not just as assertion, but an
argument.<br><br>
Nick<br><br>
At 10:37 AM 9/2/2008, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">Nick I'll grant that there can
be a lot of disinformation, but that is not a reason to forgo it. As I
have said before I hope that is what I would do, if I were in that
position. I have only supported it in extreme situations where there is a
possibility of gaining information that might save lives. I believe that
is a more moral positon than if not doing so miight result if in
the death of an untold number of people. As to coming clean that
would also apply to your positon on abortion. How about going back to
something we can basicly agree on , such as China ad Tibet. Roger
-----Original message----- From: nickgier@adelphia.net Date: Fri, 29 Aug
2008 16:00:46 -0700 To: lfalen lfalen@turbonet.com Subject: Re: Have to
be sure who was waterboarded > Hi Roger: > > Thanks for
identifying two of the three, but you have not demonstrated that Khalid
Sheikh Mohammad provided any actionable intelligence. Just
repeating the Bush administration's claim that they did does not cut it,
especially after its track record. > > What came out of Mohammad's
interrogation was a long list of confessions, many of which he could not
possibly had anything to do with. Here is one paragraph from
Wikipeida. > > One CIA official cautioned that "many of
Mohammed's claims during interrogation were 'white noise' designed to
send the U.S. on wild goose chases or to get him through the day's
interrogation session." For example according to Michigan Rep. Mike
Rogers, a former FBI agent and the top Republican on the terrorism panel
of the House Intelligence Committee, he has admitted responsibility for
the Bali nightclub bombing, but his involvement "could have been as
small as arranging a safe house for travel. It could have been arranging
finance.” Mohammed also made the admission that he was
"responsible for the 1993 World Trade Center Operation", which
killed six and injured more than 1,000 when a bomb was detonated in an
underground garage, Mohammed did not plan the attack, but he may have
supported it. Dr. Michael Welner noted that by offering legitimate
information to interrogators, Mohammed had secured the leverage to
provide disinformation as well.[47] > > Getting you to come clean
about waterboarding as illegal and immoral is not BS. This is
something that previous U.S. governments prosecuted both Americans and
Japanese for. Were they mistaken in following both moral and
international law? I'm shocked by your stubbornness on this issue.
> > Thanks for the dialogue, > > Nick > Nick > Three
have been three people that the Bush Administration has acknowledged
being > weatherboarded. Zubaydah, Khalid Sheikh Mohammad and one
other. The one I am > referring to is KSM. He is thought bo be to
organizer of 9/11 and also > personally beheaded Daniel Pearl. >
Roger > > =======================================================
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<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
<font size=2>"Truth is the summit of being; justice is the
application of it to human affairs."<br>
--Ralph Waldo Emerson<br><br>
"Abstract truth has no value unless it incarnates in human beings
who represent it, by proving their readiness to die for it."<br>
--Mohandas Gandhi<br><br>
"Modern physics has taught us that the nature of any system cannot
be discovered by dividing it into its component parts and studying each
part by itself. . . .We must keep our attention fixed on the whole and on
the interconnection between the parts. The same is true of our
intellectual life. It is impossible to make a clear cut between science,
religion, and art. The whole is never equal simply to the sum of its
various parts." --Ma</font><font size=1>x Planck<br><br>
</font>Nicholas F. Gier<br>
Professor Emeritus, Department of Philosophy, University of Idaho<br>
1037 Colt Rd., Moscow, ID 83843<br>
<a href="http://www.home.roadrunner.com/~nickgier/home.htm" eudora="autourl">
http://www.home.roadrunner.com/~nickgier/home.htm<br>
</a>208-882-9212/FAX 885-8950<br>
President, Idaho Federation of Teachers, AFL-CIO<br>
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