[Vision2020] Say What? Everyone Deserves Death

[Ted Moffett]

Chas & ya'al

I must not have made my meaning clear, misstating what I meant.  I hope the
following clarifies my meaning regarding my use of the word "extremist" to
describe the belief that "Everyone deserves death, unless they accept Jesus
as their savior."

I did not state that the belief that "Everyone deserves death, unless they
accept Jesus as their savior" is extremist when viewed only from within the
Catholic community, or only within the broader Christian community, though I
do seriously question whether this belief is truly normative within
Christianity as a whole at this time in history.  Given I never stated that
this belief is not normative within the Catholic community, we have no
disagreement on this issue.

I meant that this belief is extremist when viewed from the perspective of
humanity as a whole (which I should have stated more explicitly), or even
perhaps from the viewpoint of millions of more tolerant moderate
Christians.  My example of Nazi Germany was meant to demonstrate beliefs and
behaviors that were normative within Germany at that time, but were viewed
as extremist by most all nations in the democratic world, if not most all
humanity: normative behaviors within a given society still viewed as
extremist from a more international perspective (based on universal human
rights, for example).   And similarly, my example of the US invasion of Iraq
and the subsequent war there, also involved beliefs and behaviors that might
have been normative in the US at that time, but were also viewed as
extremist by many democratic nations in the international community, and
denounced internationally from those taking a strong stand on universal
human and civil rights.

The belief that "Everyone deserves death, unless they accept Jesus as their
savior" is almost certainly viewed as extremist by the vast majority of
people on Earth, those who are Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, and many other
non-Christians.  Otherwise they would be agreeing that they deserve death,
given they do not accept Jesus as their savior.  Not likely.

And even among more moderate tolerant Christians, especially in Europe,
where Christianity has not been hijacked by the extremist evangelical
Christian orientation that is so popular in the US, I think this belief
under question is also viewed as extremist, along with the commonly asserted
extremist evangelical beliefs that women should be subservient to men, that
Gay behavior is a grave sin that justifies discriminating against Gays, and
even the dangerous view of some rather powerful evangelical preachers in the
US, that "Christian America" is engaged in a form of religious war with
Islam.  This more extremist form of Christianity is based, as is well known,
as a literalistic interpretation of the Bible as the unerring word of God,
which I am inclined to think may be a minority view within the global
Christian community, at least in its most extremist form.

I wonder if there is any data that would clarify whether or not the
literalistic unerring word of God interpretation of the Bible is or is not a
majority view among the global Christian community?  The view that women
should be subservient to men, and that Gays deserve discrimination, is
certainly not followed by millions of Christians, here in the US, and
probably more broadly in Europe, so it appears these Christians are not
following that particular form of a literalistic interpretation of the
Bible.

Ted Moffett


On Mon, May 26, 2008 at 4:21 PM, Chasuk <chasuk at gmail.com> wrote:

> Ted, your "central claim" is indisputable.  Yes, some mainstream
> religions (and cults) use the techniques that you describe to control
> people.  Historically, Christianity (and its associated cults) have
> probably been more often guilty of this crime than other religions.
>
> > the success of the Bush agenda, and the invasion of Iraq,
> > was "cheered" by Bush's critical evangelical voting block, tens of
> millions
> > strong, many of whom actually believed "God" had a role in Bush's
> > presidency, and thus there was divine sanctioning of the Iraq invasion.
> > Scary!
>
> Terrifying, but sadly unsuprising.  This country is so saturated by
> kooks that our United States Attorney General can anoint himself with
> Crisco and not be committed.
>
> > I think these examples demonstrate that "extremist" can be "normative,"
>
> I can't accept your redefinition of the word "extremist."  Once a
> behavior has become "normative" -- or part of the the norm -- then it
> is no longer extremist.  In the case of the horribly manipulative
> tactic that you rightly condemn, it has never been extremist.
> Christianity, and especially the Roman Catholic Church,  have used it
> as their modus operandi for their entire existence.
>
> Chas
>
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