<div>Chas & ya'al</div>
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<div>I must not have made my meaning clear, misstating what I meant. I hope the following clarifies my meaning regarding my use of the word "extremist" to describe the belief that "Everyone deserves death, unless they accept Jesus as their savior." </div>
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<div>I did not state that the belief that "Everyone deserves death, unless they accept Jesus as their savior" is extremist when viewed only from within the Catholic community, or only within the broader Christian community, though I do seriously question whether this belief is truly normative within Christianity as a whole at this time in history. Given I never stated that this belief is not normative within the Catholic community, we have no disagreement on this issue.</div>
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<div>I meant that this belief is extremist when viewed from the perspective of humanity as a whole (which I should have stated more explicitly), or even perhaps from the viewpoint of millions of more tolerant moderate Christians. My example of Nazi Germany was meant to demonstrate beliefs and behaviors that were normative within Germany at that time, but were viewed as extremist by most all nations in the democratic world, if not most all humanity: normative behaviors within a given society still viewed as extremist from a more international perspective (based on universal human rights, for example). And similarly, my example of the US invasion of Iraq and the subsequent war there, also involved beliefs and behaviors that might have been normative in the US at that time, but were also viewed as extremist by many democratic nations in the international community, and denounced internationally from those taking a strong stand on universal human and civil rights.</div>
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<div>The belief that "Everyone deserves death, unless they accept Jesus as their savior" is almost certainly viewed as extremist by the vast majority of people on Earth, those who are Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, and many other non-Christians. Otherwise they would be agreeing that they deserve death, given they do not accept Jesus as their savior. Not likely.</div>
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<div>And even among more moderate tolerant Christians, especially in Europe, where Christianity has not been hijacked by the extremist evangelical Christian orientation that is so popular in the US, I think this belief under question is also viewed as extremist, along with the commonly asserted extremist evangelical beliefs that women should be subservient to men, that Gay behavior is a grave sin that justifies discriminating against Gays, and even the dangerous view of some rather powerful evangelical preachers in the US, that "Christian America" is engaged in a form of religious war with Islam. This more extremist form of Christianity is based, as is well known, as a literalistic interpretation of the Bible as the unerring word of God, which I am inclined to think may be a minority view within the global Christian community, at least in its most extremist form.</div>
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<div>I wonder if there is any data that would clarify whether or not the literalistic unerring word of God interpretation of the Bible is or is not a majority view among the global Christian community? The view that women should be subservient to men, and that Gays deserve discrimination, is certainly not followed by millions of Christians, here in the US, and probably more broadly in Europe, so it appears these Christians are not following that particular form of a literalistic interpretation of the Bible.</div>
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<div>Ted Moffett<br></div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, May 26, 2008 at 4:21 PM, Chasuk <<a href="mailto:chasuk@gmail.com">chasuk@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Ted, your "central claim" is indisputable. Yes, some mainstream<br>religions (and cults) use the techniques that you describe to control<br>
people. Historically, Christianity (and its associated cults) have<br>probably been more often guilty of this crime than other religions.<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d"><br>> the success of the Bush agenda, and the invasion of Iraq,<br>> was "cheered" by Bush's critical evangelical voting block, tens of millions<br>> strong, many of whom actually believed "God" had a role in Bush's<br>
> presidency, and thus there was divine sanctioning of the Iraq invasion.<br>> Scary!<br><br></div>Terrifying, but sadly unsuprising. This country is so saturated by<br>kooks that our United States Attorney General can anoint himself with<br>
Crisco and not be committed.<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d"><br>> I think these examples demonstrate that "extremist" can be "normative,"<br><br></div>I can't accept your redefinition of the word "extremist." Once a<br>behavior has become "normative" -- or part of the the norm -- then it<br>
is no longer extremist. In the case of the horribly manipulative<br>tactic that you rightly condemn, it has never been extremist.<br>Christianity, and especially the Roman Catholic Church, have used it<br>as their modus operandi for their entire existence.<br>
<br>Chas<br></blockquote></div><br>