[Vision2020] Vision2020 Digest, Vol 23, Issue 69

Fri May 9 11:09:04 PDT 2008

RE: "Even Judas didn't hate Christ totally. He at least had the decency to hang him self."
Maybe Judas was following an order by Jesus that nobody knew about?

I found this excerpt below concerning Judas here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judas_gospel if you're interested:

...The Gospel of Judas, on the other hand, portrays Judas in a very different perspective than do the Gospels of the New Testament, according to a preliminary translation made in early 2006 by the National Geographic Society: the Gospel of Judas appears to interpret Judas's act not as betrayal, but rather as an act of obedience to the instructions of Jesus. This assumption is taken on the basis that Jesus required a second agent to set in motion a course of events which he had preplanned in advance. In that sense Judas acted as a catalyst. The action of Judas, then, was a pivotal point which interconnected a series of simultaneous pre-orchestrated events. This portrayal seems to conform to a notion, current in some forms of Gnosticism, that the human form is a spiritual prison, and that Judas thus served Christ by helping to release Christ's spirit from its physical constraints. The action of Judas allowed him to do that which he could not do directly. The Gospel of Judas does not claim that the other disciples knew gnostic teachings. On the contrary, it asserts that the disciples had not learned the true Gospel, which Jesus taught only to Judas Iscariot...

> Message: 1> Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 08:01:56 -0700 (PDT)> From: Doug Farris <heirloom3 at yahoo.com>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Grduate Council, Faculty Council, and Christ> haters> To: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>,> nickgier at adelphia.net, vision2020 at moscow.com> Message-ID: <832718.43972.qm at web45105.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"> > Donovan,> > Nick Gier doesn't hate all Christians. > > He just hates Christ. Even Judas didn't hate Christ totally. He at least had the decency to hang him self.> > Doug!> > Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote: Gier writes:> > "Yes, I was the GSA faculty adviser for two or three years, and I was on very good terms its president."> > I was Chief of Staff and Policy Adviser for GPSA. Never saw him at any executive meetings or council meetings. I was at almost every one, even chaired some. He wasn't around when we met with President White, or any of the other top executives or Dean's at UI, or help in getting our funding. He didn't even know how many years he was adviser, or that it is called the GPSA, not GSA. > > 0-17 sounds about right. > > "The belief that the fetus is a person from conception on is a recent development among Protestants and Catholic. Canon law on abortion (for centuries it was allowed in the first trimester) was not changed until 1917."> > The belief that the nonwhites and women should be equal to White men is also a recent development among most people and did not change until after 1917. So clearly, right and wrong was not decided before or after the year 1917. > > "If Donovan had bothered to read my abortion essay, he would have noted that I quote from Christian authorities a lot." > > Why would Gier want me to read his essays, I thought he was against torture? > > > Best Regards,> > Donovan> > nickgier at adelphia.net wrote:> Greetings:> > There was so much wrong in Donavon???s outrageous e-mail (appended below) that I just have to set the record straight.> > 1. I was on the UI Graduate Council for two years, and I attended nearly every meeting, and I didn???t see Donovan there a single time. > > 2. Perhaps Donovan meant the Graduate Student Association (GSA). Yes, I was the GSA faculty advisor for two or three years, and I was on very good terms its president. I attended every meeting to which I was invited, including a very nice awards banquet in the spring of 2003. I didn???t see Donovan at any of these meetings.> > 3. I have a long and productive history with the UI Faculty Council (FC). My proudest moments were (1) the passage of an open files policy that I wrote; (2) a discussion of biweekly pay in which FC had no information but the faculty union had lots; (3) the passage of motion in 1982 that denied appropriated funds for athletics (I collected 120 signatures); (4) the time I was given 30 minutes to talk about the abuse of part-time faculty (the administration did nothing). Yes, Donovan, when I discovered that $700,000 in appropriated funds for athletics had been reinstated, I lost 0-17 to have them removed again. I had numerous calls from faculty saying that FC certainly did not represent them on this issue.> > 4. I???ve had a good record in general faculty meetings as well. When FC voted down due process for non-tenured faculty 11-9, the general faculty passed it 99-51. When FC refused to consider supporting a 1976 collective bargaining bill, I went to general faculty again and it was passed by a 2-1 vote. > > 5. In 2002 I was elected president of the Pacific Northwest American Academy of Religion and Society for Biblical Literature. Dozens of Christian colleges and universities attend this conference, and when I hosted it in 2003, 40 percent of the papers were from conservative evangelical schools. For thirty years I must have really fooled everyone with my alleged hatred of Christians and Christian values.> > 6. If Donovan had bothered to read my abortion essay, he would have noted that I quote from Christian authorities a lot. The belief that the fetus is a person from conception on is a recent development among Protestants and Catholic. Canon law on abortion (for centuries it was allowed in the first trimester) was not changed until 1917.> > 7. Except for my weekly commentaries, many of my articles on the web have passed a rigorous process of blind review. The nonsense and turds that Donovan allege does not get by scholarly reviewers but appears on V2020 all the time.> > Donovan Arnold:> > I am continually amazed that a guy can be so egotistical and self absorbed as to write pages and pages on his nonsensical drivel, publish it in on the Internet and expect us to all go flocking to it like it was anything the more exciting than a turd floating in the toilet at the far stall.> > He never once attended a Graduate Student Council Meeting, in which he was suppose to be our adviser, sat back while the undergrads looted our funding, and was soundly shot down on his idiotic nonsensical proposals to the Faculty Council.> > So why anyone would listen to this Christian Hater on the merits of an unborn soul is well beyond me.> > Best Regards,> > Donovan> > > =======================================================> List services made available by First Step Internet, > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. > http://www.fsr.net > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com> =======================================================> > > ---------------------------------> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.=======================================================> List services made available by First Step Internet, > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. > http://www.fsr.net > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com> =======================================================> > > ---------------------------------> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.> -------------- next part --------------> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...> URL: http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20080508/05c436fb/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------> > Message: 2> Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 08:40:54 -0700> From: Ralph Nielsen <nielsen at uidaho.edu>> Subject: [Vision2020] Abusive relationships> To: Vision 2020 <Vision2020 at moscow.com>> Cc: Doug Farris <heirdoug at netscape.net>, Donovan Arnold> <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>> Message-ID: <32B1B5F0-3EED-44CA-9386-11D2DDDF100F at uidaho.edu>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed> > > >> > RALPH NIELSEN> > An interesting post from another list. Read down.> ________________________________________________________________> >> > Dear Panel,> >> > This seemed incredible the first time I read it. I happened upon an> > article on emotional abuse that included a checklist of symptoms > > whereby> > you can judge whether you're in an emotionally harmful > > relationship. You> > may be wondering what this has to do with religion. I'll ask you > > ladies> > and gentlemen to first read the list and then follow me down an> > interesting line of reasoning.> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---> > Signs of Abusive, Authority-Based Relationships> > Based on an adaptation of work from Alice Miller's "For Your Own Good"> > and John Bradshaw's "Healing the Shame That Binds You"> >> > Authority figures can be parents, partners, teachers, principals,> > supervisors, religious figureheads, cult leaders, etc. Dependents > > can be> > children, partners, students, employees, religious followers, etc. > > What> > matters is that there is a power imbalance and a dependence of some> > sort, whether physical, financial, "spiritual," psychological or > > emotional.> >> > 1. Authority figures are the masters of their dependents.> >> > 2. Authority figures alone decide what is right and wrong.> >> > 3. They alone make up the definitions, the rules, and the> > "consequences" (i.e. punishment)> >> > 4. Dependents are held responsible for the authority figure's> > feelings (anger, disappointment, embarrassment, humiliation, happiness> > and unhappiness)> >> > 5. The authority figure is only responsible and accountable for > > good> > things that happen, never the bad ones. Thus the authority figure> > appears to always be in the right and when things go wrong, the> > dependent is always blamed and feels responsible and guilty.> >> > 6. The authority figure tries to exercise total control of the> > dependent by controlling his thoughts, feelings and behavior. Whenever> > this control is not absolute, the authority figure feels threatened.> >> > 7. The dependent's individuality is minimized as much as > > possible by> > the authority figure.> >> > 8. The authority figure creates an intricate system of punishments> > and rewards which rob the dependent of any sense of inner direction > > and> > esteem.> >> > 9. The following freedoms listed by Virginia Satire are denied to> > the dependent as much as possible:> >> > The freedom to perceive> > To think and interpret> > To feel> > To want, need, and choose> >> > 10. The authority figure never (or rarely) admits mistakes or> > apologizes.> >> > 11. All of the above take place in a way which does not expose the> > authority figure's true motives and none of this is openly talked > > about.> > No "back talk" is allowed.> >> > Some of the Consequences> >> > * Mistakes are concealed> > * People are under constant stress> > * Needs are frustrated, denied> > * Fear dominates> > * Power is based on fear, not respect> > * Information is withheld and distorted> > * Information flow is primarily from top down> > * Behavior is forced; does not come naturally> > * Behavior is not consistent with true feelings, which adds to the> > stress> > * Conflicts and problems are blamed on the dependent's "poor> > attitudes" and "character flaws."> >> > All of this tears the dependent person apart, causing self-alienation> > and even self-loathing. The dependent person loses faith in his/her > > own> > mind and feelings with devastating self-esteem consequences. > > Depression,> > rage, mood swings, co-dependency, self-injury and self-destruction are> > typical outcomes. If the authority figure is a parent the person will> > likely develop symptoms of various "disorders" such as the so-called> > Borderline Personality disorder, Social Anxiety Disorder, Anorexia,> > Bulimia, etc.> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > --> > Do you know what is amazing about this list? Replace "authority > > figure"> > with "supreme being" and "dependent" with "believer", and you'll > > have a> > PERFECT description of the bizarre relationships some people have > > with deities.> > Now read the list again.> > ____________________________________________________________________> DOUG> > > Yes, that was pretty accurate regarding the> > > fundamentalist's relationship with God. However, the> > > main difference is this: In an abusive relationship> > > with a person, at least the abusive person exists.> > > God does not.> > >> > > Which makes the whole thing turn from abuse to> > > insanity with regard to the fundamentalist.> > >> > RALPH> > But Doug, please don't forget that "God" is merely the instrument of> > the real "authority figure," the preacher or the evangelist.> >> > ---> >DEBORAH writes:> Very good point Ralph!> > > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 3> Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 08:53:16 -0700> From: Dave <tiedye at turbonet.com>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] rebate checks> To: vision2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>> Message-ID: <482321EC.5090406 at turbonet.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed> > Frontpage is probably why Firefox (and probably the others) have to lie > to the web page and tell it that they are IE or the page won't let you in.> > There are more then a few reasons it's called Microsuck.> > I don't do much html stuff but Bluefish looks quite complete. And you > can't beat the price it's free, like everything else Linux.> > Dave> > > Paul Rumelhart wrote:> > Does it output html that validates according to the w3c standards? > > Frontpage was horrible for this, and Microsoft is notorious for setting > > their own de-facto "standards". Does it output the "IE-friendly" html > > standard that Microsoft has used for ages that causes web designers such > > headaches trying to get their pages to render in all standards-compliant > > browsers *and* IE? Is it configured to use cascading style sheets be > > default? If everyone and their dog is going to be using Expression Web > > to code their html, I hope it's at least closer to being valid. If > > you've ever viewed the page source in your browser at some well-known > > websites, you'll know that we are miles away from the goal of moving to > > a stricter set of standards that can be used unchanged by all browsers.> >> > Paul (who codes his html in a text editor called vim and who is tired of > > coding it once for all browsers that follow the real standards like > > Firefox, Opera, and Safari only to have to bend over backwards to make > > it look good in IE without then screwing it up again for the others)> >> > Chasuk wrote:> > > >> On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 9:42 PM, Sam Scripter <moscowsam at verizon.net> wrote:> >>> >> > >> > >>> And how much do these two Microsoft software> >>> packages cost? Does the UI Bookstore offer them> >>> at "academic" prices?> >>> > >>> > >> Expression Web is the best HTML editor I have ever used, and I'd like> >> to think that I have used them all. Disclaimer: I hated Frontpage.> >> Yes, Expression Web (and the rest of the Expression suite) is> >> available at academic prices. Version 2 is brand new (I didn't even> >> know about it), so it might take a little while for the academic> >> version to reach retail outlets, but the previous academic version has> >> been in stores for a year or more. I can't vouch for the price of the> >> entire suite, but the academic price for Expression Web by itself> >> is/was $89.> >>> >> Chas> >>> >> =======================================================> >> List services made available by First Step Internet, > >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. > >> http://www.fsr.net > >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com> >> =======================================================> >>> >> > >> > >> >> > =======================================================> > List services made available by First Step Internet, > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. > > http://www.fsr.net > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com> > =======================================================> >> >> > > > > -- > Windows, OSX, or Linux is the same choice as:> McDonalds, Burger King, or a (real) Co-Op.> > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 4> Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 09:05:09 -0700> From: "Saundra Lund" <sslund_2007 at verizon.net>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] rebate checks> To: "'Donovan Arnold'" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>, "'Paul> Rumelhart'" <godshatter at yahoo.com>, "'Vision2020'"> <vision2020 at moscow.com>> Message-ID: <00f501c8b125$4b76c3c0$e2644b40$@net>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"> > Sadly, my accountant is the one who informed me L I don't know when the> change was made.> > http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc606.html> > > > > > Saundra Lund> > Moscow, ID> > > > The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do> nothing.> > ~ Edmund Burke> > > > ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2008 through life plus> 70 years, Saundra Lund. Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside> the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of the> author.*****> > > > From: Donovan Arnold [mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 11:54 PM> To: Saundra Lund; 'Paul Rumelhart'; 'Vision2020'> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] rebate checks> > > > Saundra,> > > > I believe that you can keep your children on your tax returns until 21 or 23> if they are still in school. I would ask your tax people on that one. If> not, they changed the law recently.> > > > Best Regards,> > > > Donovan> > Saundra Lund <sslund_2007 at verizon.net> wrote:> > I will be using mine to partially reimburse myself for the increased taxes I> had to pay on income that was income on paper only :-( Oh, and for those> who don't know, parents lose the child credit the tax year in which their> child turns 17, not 18, which was another unpleasant surprise.> > And, once I partially reimburse myself, I'll be able to get the new glasses> I'd budgeted for before the feds and state raped me. Depressingly, I've> reached the age where I'm going to need progressive lenses -- I'd hoped to> be able to hold out until I hit 50, but that didn't happen. > > I'd not have a single complaint about having to hand over more money on> paper income it we had universal health care, though.> > > Saundra Lund> Moscow, ID> > The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do> nothing.> ~ Edmund Burke> > ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2008 through life plus> 70 years, Saundra Lund. Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside> the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of the> author.*****> > > > -------------- next part --------------> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...> URL: http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20080508/cc1e7a61/attachment.html > > ------------------------------> > =======================================================> List services made available by First Step Internet, > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. > http://www.fsr.net > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com> =======================================================> > End of Vision2020 Digest, Vol 23, Issue 69> ******************************************
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