[Vision2020] Sali Seeks to Delay Mexican Consulate
keely emerinemix
kjajmix1 at msn.com
Mon May 5 20:49:30 PDT 2008
Do you think that referring to the children of undocumented immigrants as "spawn" really helps your argument? Your contempt is showing, and it's really ugly.
Keely
> From: jampot at roadrunner.com
> To: ophite at gmail.com
> Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 13:01:12 -0700
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com; donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Sali Seeks to Delay Mexican Consulate
>
> What part of "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" do you not
> understand?
> Illegal aliens and their spawn are subject to the jurisdictions of their
> countries of origin. This phrase was included in the amendment for a reason.
> To say otherwise is to disregard all of the subsequent case law. If the
> amendment was intended to apply to all people born within the United States
> why were Indians, Chinese, foreign visitors and ambassadors all immediately
> excluded? Since this matter has not been directly addressed by the Supreme
> Court it is disingenuous to pretend that this is a cut and dried issue.
>
> g
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andreas Schou" <ophite at gmail.com>
> To: "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
> Cc: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 10:49 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Sali Seeks to Delay Mexican Consulate
>
>
> Gary --
>
> You quoted a co-author of the amendment, but not the text of the
> actual amendment.
>
> "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to
> the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the
> State wherein they reside."
>
> What part of "all persons born or naturalized" do you not understand?
> The text of the amendment overrides any statement of intent by its
> authors. If they intended the amendment to mean something other than
> its plain meaning (or if they intended the amendment to express jus
> sanguinis rather than jus soli), that's the amendment they should've
> written.
>
> Unfortunately, conservative readings of the 14th amendment are as
> openly BS as liberal readings of the commerce clause.
>
> -- ACS
>
> On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 6:49 AM, g. crabtree <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > "P.S. Children of illegal immigrants born on American soil or American
> > citizens. If you disagree with that, go ahead and change the
> > Constitution -- it's in there, plain as day."
> >
> > Not in the Constitution, as such, but found in a misinterpretation of a
> > portion of the 14th amendment. At the time that this amendment was
> > ratified
> > (1868) the U.S. had no immigration policy. The clause Mr. Schou refers to
> > was intended to address the status of freed slaves and overturn the Dred
> > Scott decision. According to amendment Co-author Ohio Senator Jacob
> > Howard:
> >
> >
> >
> > "Every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to
> > their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen
> > of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in
> > the
> > United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of
> > ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the
> > United
> > States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the
> > great
> > question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or
> > are
> > not citizens of the United States. This has long been a great desideratum
> > in
> > the jurisprudence and legislation of this country.
> >
> >
> >
> > Clearly, this amendment was not intended to extend legal status to
> > children
> > born in this country by legal aliens much less aliens who are already
> > breaking U.S. law by overstaying a visa or making a illegal boarder
> > crossing. This was confirmed by the supreme court in 1884. No change to
> > the
> > Constitution would be required to end the practice of extending
> > citizenship
> > to the offspring of aliens in this country illegally.
> > g
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Andreas Schou" <ophite at gmail.com>
> > To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> > Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >
> > Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 2:38 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Sali Seeks to Delay Mexican Consulate
> >
> >
> >
> > Donovan --
> >
> > You are misinformed.
> >
> > It's frequently, and correctly, been ruled that illegal immigrants
> > can't be denied emergency health care, but the requirements to prove
> > citizenship for federally-funded services like Medicaid and TANF are
> > onerous at best*. In order to get either, you have to provide
> > documentation of both citizenship and identity: in other words, a
> > birth certificate and a driver's license.
> >
> > -- ACS
> >
> > P.S. Children of illegal immigrants born on American soil or American
> > citizens. If you disagree with that, go ahead and change the
> > Constitution -- it's in there, plain as day.
> >
> > On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 12:06 AM, Donovan Arnold
> > <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Rev. Keely is being dishonest with her statements and intentionally
> > > deceptive.
> > >
> > > Illegal aliens, the same as legal immigrants, in the US, are legally
> > > entitled to get education, emergency medical services, welfare, low
> > > income
> > > housing, and other tax supported services intended to go to US citizens.
> > She
> > > knows courts have ruled we cannot deny these services based on legal
> > status.
> > >
> > > So you can see her statement
> > >
> > > "The consulates do not exist to help Mexican immigrants gain access to
> > > taxpayer-supported social services to which they are not, by reason of
> > their
> > > immigration status, legally entitled.",
> > >
> > > is a big meaningless pile of sh*t worded in a manner to make you swallow
> > it
> > > down that my statement was false, when she knows it wasn't.
> > >
> > > The main function of Mexican Consulates is to get illegal aliens access
> > > to
> > > US taxpayer supported services. I said nothing about the illegality of
> > > the
> > > entitlement.
> > >
> > > Each day 1000 illegal aliens alone visit the LA Mexican Consulate to
> > obtain
> > > "ID cards" which they force local government, through federal law, to
> > except
> > > in place of US driver's licenses and Visa, which only illegal immigrants
> > do
> > > not have. This allows the people here illegally from Mexico to access
> > state
> > > and federal services.
> > >
> > > Keely is aware of this fact. She is also aware that Consulates provide
> > legal
> > > and financial assistance to illegal aliens so they can remain in the US.
> > It
> > > is also known that the consulates provide pamphlets on how to avoid
> > > detection in the US while here illegally and how to cross the boarder
> > > illegally and not get caught.
> > >
> > > I am guessing that MOST readers on the V, are not so naive as to believe
> > > that the reason consulates exist, and they get tens or hundreds of
> > thousands
> > > of visitors by illegal aliens each years, is to show support for
> > diplomatic
> > > and trade relations with the US and Mexico.
> > >
> > > Best Regards,
> > >
> > > Donovan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > As politely as possible, let me respond to Donovan as someone who has
> > spent
> > > a lot of time in the Mexican consulate in Seattle.
> > >
> > > Bulls**t.
> > >
> > > The consulates do not exist to help Mexican immigrants gain access to
> > > taxpayer-supported social services to which they are not, by reason of
> > their
> > > immigration status, legally entitled. Suggesting that they do is
> > > recklessly, maliciously untrue. But it is entirely understandable
> > > coming
> > > from someone as misinformed on the issue as Donovan, and as dense as
> > > Bill
> > > Sali.
> > >
> > > Keely
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 22:01:27 -0700
> > > From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> > > To: joekc at adelphia.net
> > > CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Sali Seeks to Delay Mexican Consulate
> > >
> > >
> > > Joe,
> > >
> > > Are you serious? Or are you joking? If you have been anywhere outside
> > > the
> > > protective bubble of a University, you must be joking.
> > >
> > > First off, the only reason that Mexican Consulates exist is to get
> > > illegal
> > > aliens access to US government services, like welfare, unemployment
> > > benefits, food stamps, diver's licenses, gas vouchers, low income
> > > housing,
> > > legal aid, and jobs, that would otherwise go to US citizens.
> > >
> > > Second, you are wrong that Americans would not take farm work if the
> > > farm
> > > work paid a livable wage. If you believe that ANY workers should be
> > allowed
> > > to be paid a sub-livable wage, than you sir, need to rethink your
> > > outlook
> > on
> > > the value of a person.
> > >
> > > Third, your statements reveal your racists and stereotyped beliefs.
> > Illegal
> > > aliens are not all a bunch of dumb, idiotic potato pickers making $4 an
> > > hour. Most of them are bright, intelligent, hard working inventive
> > > people,
> > > certainly more so than the bottom 1/3 of US workers they are competing
> > with
> > > in the US job market. They work in the hospitality, construction,
> > > manufacturing, agriculture, automotive, and almost every other category
> > > in
> > > the below middle class job market. Having 40,000 illegal immigrants in
> > > the
> > > state willing and able to work in the jobs lower class citizens can only
> > do
> > > hurts their wages. Why does a business only pay a house cleaner $10 an
> > hour
> > > instead of $12? Because he can hire 30 others willing to do the work for
> > the
> > > $10. Same goes for meat packers, lawn services, farm workers, and other
> > > services and industries.
> > >
> > > Joe, you don't live in the real world. You aren't forced to find a job
> > > making $10 an hour, and when you apply you are waiting with 20 others
> > > that
> > > are willing to do the same job for $9 and have 20 years experience, most
> > of
> > > them not here legally? How many times have you had that happen to you,
> > Joe?
> > > I bet none. You live in the fantasy world where illegals are bunch of
> > > dumb
> > > educated idiots that can only pick potatoes and tomatoes for $4. They
> > > are
> > > aren't carpenters, drivers, maids, painters, lawn care providers,
> > > manufacturers, and in other jobs reducing livable wages for the bottom
> > > 1/3
> > > of the work US workforce.
> > > Real wages are on a decline, and most US citizens are suffering as a
> > result
> > > of illegal immigrants being allowed to work in the US for lower wages,
> > > and
> > > sometimes illegal wages.
> > >
> > > Oppose Slavery, Joe. Oppose illegal immigration. Support livable wages
> > > for
> > > all US workers, Joe. Oppose illegal immigration.
> > >
> > > Best Regards,
> > >
> > > Donovan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Joe Campbell <joekc at adelphia.net> wrote:
> > > Donovan,
> > >
> > > How on earth will Sali's efforts "keep illegal activities and illegal
> > > immigrants
> > > out of the state"? For that matter, what can the Mexican government do
> > > to
> > > prove that they "won't aid illegal aliens" and earn a Mexican consulate
> > > here?
> > >
> > > And just for the record, I'm sure that there are plenty of folks in
> > > Idaho
> > > and
> > > Washington who would be willing to pay you sub-minimum wage to pick
> > > fruit.
> > > The problem is not with the Mexican immigrants, and they aren't taking
> > away
> > > jobs that would otherwise go to American citizens.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Joe Campbell
> > >
> > > ---- Donovan Arnold wrote:
> > >
> > > =============
> > > I am voting to reelect Bill Sali precisely because he is attempting to
> > keep
> > > illegal activities and illegal immigrants out of the state. Idaho has
> > enough
> > > problems getting enough funding for its schools, and providing other
> > social
> > > and medical services. Having to provide for thousands of others who are
> > not
> > > legal residents is to much of a burden for poor Idahoans. An influx of
> > labor
> > > also reduces wages, something we also can ill afford in Idaho.
> > >
> > > Best Regards,
> > >
> > > Donovan
> > >
> > > Tom Hansen wrote:
> > > Just when you thought that Bill Sali couldn't get more ignorant, I am
> > > here
> > > to tell you . . .
> > >
> > > >From today's (May 1, 2008) Spokesman Review -
> > >
> > > -----------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Sali seeks to delay Mexican consulate
> > > Todd Dvorak
> > > Associated Press
> > > May 1, 2008
> > >
> > > BOISE – Rep. Bill Sali, R-Idaho, is urging Secretary of State
> > > Condoleezza
> > > Rice to hold off opening a Mexican consulate in Idaho until the
> > > government
> > > can show the office won't aid illegal aliens.
> > >
> > > Sali, a conservative first-term congressman, sent Rice a letter
> > > Wednesday
> > > saying Idaho residents deserve guarantees that Mexican consular offices
> > > will not help illegal aliens obtain identification cards that can be
> > > used
> > > to receive government services or other benefits.
> > >
> > > "Our government has the moral and constitutional duty to take into
> > > consideration how foreign consulates affect our fellow citizens here in
> > > our own country," Sali wrote in the letter to Rice that was made
> > > available
> > > to news media.
> > >
> > > "While I appreciate the important role that the Mexican and other
> > > foreign
> > > consulates play in facilitating trade and assisting their citizens in
> > > distress just as our foreign consulates do, that is not the issue at
> > > stake
> > > here," he added.
> > >
> > > Sali asserted that the State Department has done little to assure
> > > residents that a consular office would not be used to aid illegal
> > > immigration.
> > >
> > > The State Department did not return phone messages from the Associated
> > > Press on Wednesday.
> > >
> > > In March, Sali received a letter from the State Department saying an
> > > application for a consular office in Boise is pending.
> > >
> > > Idaho is one of several states without a Mexican consulate, but a grass-
> > > roots effort to open one has been under way for several years.
> > > Supporters
> > > say they have collected about 10,000 signatures on a petition requesting
> > > a
> > > Mexican consular presence in the state.
> > >
> > > -----------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Seeya round town, Moscow.
> > >
> > > Tom Hansen
> > > Moscow, Idaho
> > >
> > > "People who ridicule others while hiding behind anonymous monikers in
> > chat-
> > > room forums are neither brave nor clever."
> > >
> > > - Latah County Sheriff Wayne Rausch (August 21,
> > > 2007)
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------
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