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Do you think that referring to the children of undocumented immigrants as "spawn" really helps your argument? Your contempt is showing, and it's really ugly.<br><br>Keely<br><br><br><br><br>> From: jampot@roadrunner.com<br>> To: ophite@gmail.com<br>> Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 13:01:12 -0700<br>> CC: vision2020@moscow.com; donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com<br>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Sali Seeks to Delay Mexican Consulate<br>> <br>> What part of "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" do you not <br>> understand?<br>> Illegal aliens and their spawn are subject to the jurisdictions of their <br>> countries of origin. This phrase was included in the amendment for a reason. <br>> To say otherwise is to disregard all of the subsequent case law. If the <br>> amendment was intended to apply to all people born within the United States <br>> why were Indians, Chinese, foreign visitors and ambassadors all immediately <br>> excluded? Since this matter has not been directly addressed by the Supreme <br>> Court it is disingenuous to pretend that this is a cut and dried issue.<br>> <br>> g<br>> ----- Original Message ----- <br>> From: "Andreas Schou" <ophite@gmail.com><br>> To: "g. crabtree" <jampot@roadrunner.com><br>> Cc: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com>; <vision2020@moscow.com><br>> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 10:49 AM<br>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Sali Seeks to Delay Mexican Consulate<br>> <br>> <br>> Gary --<br>> <br>> You quoted a co-author of the amendment, but not the text of the<br>> actual amendment.<br>> <br>> "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to<br>> the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the<br>> State wherein they reside."<br>> <br>> What part of "all persons born or naturalized" do you not understand?<br>> The text of the amendment overrides any statement of intent by its<br>> authors. If they intended the amendment to mean something other than<br>> its plain meaning (or if they intended the amendment to express jus<br>> sanguinis rather than jus soli), that's the amendment they should've<br>> written.<br>> <br>> Unfortunately, conservative readings of the 14th amendment are as<br>> openly BS as liberal readings of the commerce clause.<br>> <br>> -- ACS<br>> <br>> On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 6:49 AM, g. crabtree <jampot@roadrunner.com> wrote:<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > "P.S. Children of illegal immigrants born on American soil or American<br>> > citizens. If you disagree with that, go ahead and change the<br>> > Constitution -- it's in there, plain as day."<br>> ><br>> > Not in the Constitution, as such, but found in a misinterpretation of a<br>> > portion of the 14th amendment. At the time that this amendment was <br>> > ratified<br>> > (1868) the U.S. had no immigration policy. The clause Mr. Schou refers to<br>> > was intended to address the status of freed slaves and overturn the Dred<br>> > Scott decision. According to amendment Co-author Ohio Senator Jacob <br>> > Howard:<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > "Every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to<br>> > their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen<br>> > of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in <br>> > the<br>> > United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of<br>> > ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the <br>> > United<br>> > States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the <br>> > great<br>> > question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or <br>> > are<br>> > not citizens of the United States. This has long been a great desideratum <br>> > in<br>> > the jurisprudence and legislation of this country.<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > Clearly, this amendment was not intended to extend legal status to <br>> > children<br>> > born in this country by legal aliens much less aliens who are already<br>> > breaking U.S. law by overstaying a visa or making a illegal boarder<br>> > crossing. This was confirmed by the supreme court in 1884. No change to <br>> > the<br>> > Constitution would be required to end the practice of extending <br>> > citizenship<br>> > to the offspring of aliens in this country illegally.<br>> > g<br>> ><br>> > ----- Original Message -----<br>> > From: "Andreas Schou" <ophite@gmail.com><br>> > To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com><br>> > Cc: <vision2020@moscow.com><br>> ><br>> > Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 2:38 PM<br>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Sali Seeks to Delay Mexican Consulate<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > Donovan --<br>> ><br>> > You are misinformed.<br>> ><br>> > It's frequently, and correctly, been ruled that illegal immigrants<br>> > can't be denied emergency health care, but the requirements to prove<br>> > citizenship for federally-funded services like Medicaid and TANF are<br>> > onerous at best*. In order to get either, you have to provide<br>> > documentation of both citizenship and identity: in other words, a<br>> > birth certificate and a driver's license.<br>> ><br>> > -- ACS<br>> ><br>> > P.S. Children of illegal immigrants born on American soil or American<br>> > citizens. If you disagree with that, go ahead and change the<br>> > Constitution -- it's in there, plain as day.<br>> ><br>> > On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 12:06 AM, Donovan Arnold<br>> > <donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com> wrote:<br>> > > Rev. Keely is being dishonest with her statements and intentionally<br>> > > deceptive.<br>> > ><br>> > > Illegal aliens, the same as legal immigrants, in the US, are legally<br>> > > entitled to get education, emergency medical services, welfare, low <br>> > > income<br>> > > housing, and other tax supported services intended to go to US citizens.<br>> > She<br>> > > knows courts have ruled we cannot deny these services based on legal<br>> > status.<br>> > ><br>> > > So you can see her statement<br>> > ><br>> > > "The consulates do not exist to help Mexican immigrants gain access to<br>> > > taxpayer-supported social services to which they are not, by reason of<br>> > their<br>> > > immigration status, legally entitled.",<br>> > ><br>> > > is a big meaningless pile of sh*t worded in a manner to make you swallow<br>> > it<br>> > > down that my statement was false, when she knows it wasn't.<br>> > ><br>> > > The main function of Mexican Consulates is to get illegal aliens access <br>> > > to<br>> > > US taxpayer supported services. I said nothing about the illegality of <br>> > > the<br>> > > entitlement.<br>> > ><br>> > > Each day 1000 illegal aliens alone visit the LA Mexican Consulate to<br>> > obtain<br>> > > "ID cards" which they force local government, through federal law, to<br>> > except<br>> > > in place of US driver's licenses and Visa, which only illegal immigrants<br>> > do<br>> > > not have. This allows the people here illegally from Mexico to access<br>> > state<br>> > > and federal services.<br>> > ><br>> > > Keely is aware of this fact. She is also aware that Consulates provide<br>> > legal<br>> > > and financial assistance to illegal aliens so they can remain in the US.<br>> > It<br>> > > is also known that the consulates provide pamphlets on how to avoid<br>> > > detection in the US while here illegally and how to cross the boarder<br>> > > illegally and not get caught.<br>> > ><br>> > > I am guessing that MOST readers on the V, are not so naive as to believe<br>> > > that the reason consulates exist, and they get tens or hundreds of<br>> > thousands<br>> > > of visitors by illegal aliens each years, is to show support for<br>> > diplomatic<br>> > > and trade relations with the US and Mexico.<br>> > ><br>> > > Best Regards,<br>> > ><br>> > > Donovan<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > keely emerinemix <kjajmix1@msn.com> wrote:<br>> > ><br>> > > As politely as possible, let me respond to Donovan as someone who has<br>> > spent<br>> > > a lot of time in the Mexican consulate in Seattle.<br>> > ><br>> > > Bulls**t.<br>> > ><br>> > > The consulates do not exist to help Mexican immigrants gain access to<br>> > > taxpayer-supported social services to which they are not, by reason of<br>> > their<br>> > > immigration status, legally entitled. Suggesting that they do is<br>> > > recklessly, maliciously untrue. But it is entirely understandable <br>> > > coming<br>> > > from someone as misinformed on the issue as Donovan, and as dense as <br>> > > Bill<br>> > > Sali.<br>> > ><br>> > > Keely<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > ________________________________<br>> > > Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 22:01:27 -0700<br>> > > From: donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com<br>> > > To: joekc@adelphia.net<br>> > > CC: vision2020@moscow.com<br>> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Sali Seeks to Delay Mexican Consulate<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > Joe,<br>> > ><br>> > > Are you serious? Or are you joking? If you have been anywhere outside <br>> > > the<br>> > > protective bubble of a University, you must be joking.<br>> > ><br>> > > First off, the only reason that Mexican Consulates exist is to get <br>> > > illegal<br>> > > aliens access to US government services, like welfare, unemployment<br>> > > benefits, food stamps, diver's licenses, gas vouchers, low income <br>> > > housing,<br>> > > legal aid, and jobs, that would otherwise go to US citizens.<br>> > ><br>> > > Second, you are wrong that Americans would not take farm work if the <br>> > > farm<br>> > > work paid a livable wage. If you believe that ANY workers should be<br>> > allowed<br>> > > to be paid a sub-livable wage, than you sir, need to rethink your <br>> > > outlook<br>> > on<br>> > > the value of a person.<br>> > ><br>> > > Third, your statements reveal your racists and stereotyped beliefs.<br>> > Illegal<br>> > > aliens are not all a bunch of dumb, idiotic potato pickers making $4 an<br>> > > hour. Most of them are bright, intelligent, hard working inventive <br>> > > people,<br>> > > certainly more so than the bottom 1/3 of US workers they are competing<br>> > with<br>> > > in the US job market. They work in the hospitality, construction,<br>> > > manufacturing, agriculture, automotive, and almost every other category <br>> > > in<br>> > > the below middle class job market. Having 40,000 illegal immigrants in <br>> > > the<br>> > > state willing and able to work in the jobs lower class citizens can only<br>> > do<br>> > > hurts their wages. Why does a business only pay a house cleaner $10 an<br>> > hour<br>> > > instead of $12? Because he can hire 30 others willing to do the work for<br>> > the<br>> > > $10. Same goes for meat packers, lawn services, farm workers, and other<br>> > > services and industries.<br>> > ><br>> > > Joe, you don't live in the real world. You aren't forced to find a job<br>> > > making $10 an hour, and when you apply you are waiting with 20 others <br>> > > that<br>> > > are willing to do the same job for $9 and have 20 years experience, most<br>> > of<br>> > > them not here legally? How many times have you had that happen to you,<br>> > Joe?<br>> > > I bet none. You live in the fantasy world where illegals are bunch of <br>> > > dumb<br>> > > educated idiots that can only pick potatoes and tomatoes for $4. They <br>> > > are<br>> > > aren't carpenters, drivers, maids, painters, lawn care providers,<br>> > > manufacturers, and in other jobs reducing livable wages for the bottom <br>> > > 1/3<br>> > > of the work US workforce.<br>> > > Real wages are on a decline, and most US citizens are suffering as a<br>> > result<br>> > > of illegal immigrants being allowed to work in the US for lower wages, <br>> > > and<br>> > > sometimes illegal wages.<br>> > ><br>> > > Oppose Slavery, Joe. Oppose illegal immigration. Support livable wages <br>> > > for<br>> > > all US workers, Joe. Oppose illegal immigration.<br>> > ><br>> > > Best Regards,<br>> > ><br>> > > Donovan<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > Joe Campbell <joekc@adelphia.net> wrote:<br>> > > Donovan,<br>> > ><br>> > > How on earth will Sali's efforts "keep illegal activities and illegal<br>> > > immigrants<br>> > > out of the state"? For that matter, what can the Mexican government do <br>> > > to<br>> > > prove that they "won't aid illegal aliens" and earn a Mexican consulate<br>> > > here?<br>> > ><br>> > > And just for the record, I'm sure that there are plenty of folks in <br>> > > Idaho<br>> > > and<br>> > > Washington who would be willing to pay you sub-minimum wage to pick <br>> > > fruit.<br>> > > The problem is not with the Mexican immigrants, and they aren't taking<br>> > away<br>> > > jobs that would otherwise go to American citizens.<br>> > ><br>> > > --<br>> > > Joe Campbell<br>> > ><br>> > > ---- Donovan Arnold wrote:<br>> > ><br>> > > =============<br>> > > I am voting to reelect Bill Sali precisely because he is attempting to<br>> > keep<br>> > > illegal activities and illegal immigrants out of the state. Idaho has<br>> > enough<br>> > > problems getting enough funding for its schools, and providing other<br>> > social<br>> > > and medical services. Having to provide for thousands of others who are<br>> > not<br>> > > legal residents is to much of a burden for poor Idahoans. An influx of<br>> > labor<br>> > > also reduces wages, something we also can ill afford in Idaho.<br>> > ><br>> > > Best Regards,<br>> > ><br>> > > Donovan<br>> > ><br>> > > Tom Hansen wrote:<br>> > > Just when you thought that Bill Sali couldn't get more ignorant, I am <br>> > > here<br>> > > to tell you . . .<br>> > ><br>> > > >From today's (May 1, 2008) Spokesman Review -<br>> > ><br>> > > -----------------------------------------------<br>> > ><br>> > > Sali seeks to delay Mexican consulate<br>> > > Todd Dvorak<br>> > > Associated Press<br>> > > May 1, 2008<br>> > ><br>> > > BOISE – Rep. Bill Sali, R-Idaho, is urging Secretary of State <br>> > > Condoleezza<br>> > > Rice to hold off opening a Mexican consulate in Idaho until the <br>> > > government<br>> > > can show the office won't aid illegal aliens.<br>> > ><br>> > > Sali, a conservative first-term congressman, sent Rice a letter <br>> > > Wednesday<br>> > > saying Idaho residents deserve guarantees that Mexican consular offices<br>> > > will not help illegal aliens obtain identification cards that can be <br>> > > used<br>> > > to receive government services or other benefits.<br>> > ><br>> > > "Our government has the moral and constitutional duty to take into<br>> > > consideration how foreign consulates affect our fellow citizens here in<br>> > > our own country," Sali wrote in the letter to Rice that was made <br>> > > available<br>> > > to news media.<br>> > ><br>> > > "While I appreciate the important role that the Mexican and other <br>> > > foreign<br>> > > consulates play in facilitating trade and assisting their citizens in<br>> > > distress just as our foreign consulates do, that is not the issue at <br>> > > stake<br>> > > here," he added.<br>> > ><br>> > > Sali asserted that the State Department has done little to assure<br>> > > residents that a consular office would not be used to aid illegal<br>> > > immigration.<br>> > ><br>> > > The State Department did not return phone messages from the Associated<br>> > > Press on Wednesday.<br>> > ><br>> > > In March, Sali received a letter from the State Department saying an<br>> > > application for a consular office in Boise is pending.<br>> > ><br>> > > Idaho is one of several states without a Mexican consulate, but a grass-<br>> > > roots effort to open one has been under way for several years. <br>> > > Supporters<br>> > > say they have collected about 10,000 signatures on a petition requesting <br>> > > a<br>> > > Mexican consular presence in the state.<br>> > ><br>> > > -----------------------------------------------<br>> > ><br>> > > Seeya round town, Moscow.<br>> > ><br>> > > Tom Hansen<br>> > > Moscow, Idaho<br>> > ><br>> > > "People who ridicule others while hiding behind anonymous monikers in<br>> > chat-<br>> > > room forums are neither brave nor clever."<br>> > ><br>> > > - Latah County Sheriff Wayne Rausch (August 21,<br>> > > 2007)<br>> > ><br>> > > ---------------------------------------------<br>> > > This message was sent by First Step Internet.<br>> > > http://www.fsr.com/<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > =======================================================<br>> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>> > > http://www.fsr.net<br>> > > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> > > =======================================================<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > ---------------------------------<br>> > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! 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