[Vision2020] Recall the city council

Mon Mar 24 20:36:59 PDT 2008

Joe,

  Wouldn't it follow that if you don't want a Wal-Mart anywhere on the planet, that it is a lost cause to spend time asking you where one ought to be placed since you wouldn't support it anyway?

  I think building the apartments there was not the best place, but it was the best available. I think allowing students to live within walking distance of school is a good idea, not a bad one. I think building lots of apartments in Moscow makes housing more affordable. Moscow being more affordable makes attending UI more affordable which helps student enrollment and the over all economy in Moscow. When you have students paying $700 for an apartment, it is hard for most students to afford school. That is as much as a house in most other parts of Idaho. 

  I think you should call Wal-Mart what it is, not made up names. I think it shows a level of disrespect when the only people that call it that are people opposed to it. They changed the name so it would fit on a bumper sticker. So, yes, it is demeaning to the people that work at the store, and the shoppers that depend on it to afford the things they need to live.

  Best Regards,

  Donovan

Joe Campbell <joekc at adelphia.net> wrote:
  I didn't say that putting the Super Walmart behind the mall would make things better than they are now. I said putting it on the east side of town would make things worse than they are now. There are not now huge groups of people who drive from Pullman to the east side of Moscow. There are some but not a lot. If there were a Super Walmart at Mountain View and Rt. 8, there would be huge groups of people from Pullman driving to the east side of Moscow and that would make an already bad traffic flow problem worse. Putting the Super Walmart near the mall would not, it seems, increase the traffic flow problems from east to west too much. Traffic will be worse than it is now but not worse than it would have been were the original plan to have been implemented.

--
Joe Campbell

---- "g. crabtree" wrote: 

=============
This is confusing. If A st. had been developed as intense commercial area, 
as is being suggested and all the apartments had been built to the east, 
wouldn't the problems be at least as bad as they are now if not worse? 
Students walking to school would be causing safety problems as they were 
forced to cross Washington, Main, and Jackson two thirds of which comprise 
Idaho's main north/south conduit. All the people living on the east side 
would still need to be able to make the trek to the retail development that 
would be compacted into the limited west retail area. It seems to me that it 
would simply be the same problem in reverse with the added disadvantage of 
it becoming even more difficult for pedestrians to be able to walk to their 
shopping destination along with a further trek to get to school. It seems to 
me it would make much more sense to allow commercial/retail development to 
grow naturally along both the north/south axis as well as the east/west with 
a more natural blend of residential. The "traffic problem" really just seems 
to be another in a long line of canards thrown out to artificially stymie 
development in Moscow.

g
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Saundra Lund" 
To: "'Joe Campbell'" ; 

Cc: 
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Recall the city council

Hi Joe,

In part, you wrote:
"Growth without vision will only create more problems than it can solve. The
apartments on A Street are a fine example of this."

Amen to that! Pat wanted to talk about the short-sightedness of some
people, and I think that's a great topic and A Street is a great example!

So, who is responsible for the debacle that is A Street now??? Surely, it's
NOT the previous council. Inquiring minds want to know!

Saundra Lund
Moscow, ID

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
nothing.
~ Edmund Burke

***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2008 through life plus
70 years, Saundra Lund. Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside
the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of the
author.*****

-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of Joe Campbell
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 5:10 PM
To: pkraut at moscow.com
Cc: vision2020 at mail-gw.fsr.net
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Recall the city council

Pat,

It is not elitist to note that it is difficult to get from the west side of
town to the east side and vice versa. There is a traffic flow problem that
would only be made worse by building on the east side. Solve the traffic
problem first and then build. That is all I'm suggesting!

Growth without vision will only create more problems than it can solve. The
apartments on A Street are a fine example of this. Who benefits? A small
minority and that is all.

--
Joe Campbell

---- pkraut at moscow.com wrote:

=============
This attitude is exactly why Aaron is no longer on the council. If 68% of
the city of Moscow lives on the other side of town from the current 'big'
mall why are we still only building on that side of town? We won't! We
need more shopping on this side where people live...end of story. It is
elitist at best for you and others to decide that everyone in town will
shop only where you say without considering the needs of everyone in
town. The old council was voted in by an group who saw this as the one
and only way to grow or change anything and you might note they are no
longer there. When we all learned what they meant by 'smart growth' we
realized that is was not what we needed nor wanted.

> First, no one threatened the previous council. They were elected in
part because of their
ideas about smart growth vs. growth at any cost.
>
> Second, if and when the Hawkins area starts to develop, it will have as
much to do with
the current council selling water rights and opening up the flood gates
(no pun intended)
as anything else. Why not complain about that?
>
> Third, some of us (me at least) were opposed to the Super Walmart
location -- on the east
side of town, which would have caused huge traffic problems -- as opposed
to Walmart per
se. I'd rather see Walmart develop on the west side of town rather than
the east. I'd
rather even see it developed in Washington than across from the East Side
Mall.
>
> Fourth, one might ask, Why didn't Super Walmart develop on the west
side of town? Part of
the answer is that the area of town which was zoned for that type of
purpose (viz. A
Street) was eventually turned into apartments. It happened well before
the mayor and
previous council were in office, when back door deals were common and
ignorance of the
comprehensive plan was celebrated. I fear much the same from the current
council, as the
details of the last Hawkins seem to reveal.
>
> Find out the facts, Donovan, and criticize the folks who deserve
criticism. If A Street
were available for Super Walmart -- which would benefit most of the folks
in town -- as
opposed to apartments -- which benefit a minority -- there would not have
been the level
of opposition that there was. I wouldn't have opposed such a development.
Not that I would
have liked it -- I'm still anti-Walmart for reasons other than their
location on the
Palouse -- but I wouldn't have opposed a Super Walmart on A Street.
>
> --
> Joe Campbell
>
> ---- Donovan Arnold wrote:
>
> =============
> Like we didn't see this coming?
>
> The Moscow City Council rejected fair efforts by Wal-Mart to play
ball according to the
rules laid out by Moscow. Now Wal-Mart is going across the street to play
ball over there.
You didn't think that was going to happen? Of course it is.
>
> This is why people, economic professors included, were saying to the
then Moscow City
Council and Mayor to work with Wal-Mart so we have the revenue, set the
environmental
standards, and the layout to our advantage.
>
> When a handful of noisy vocal, we know what's best, residents showed
up to threaten the
council if they voted to support Wal-Mart, they with that vote, gave 100%
of the power,
revenue, and jobs to Whitman County, just one mile away. Was it worth it?
I think not.
>
> Wal-Mart is much bigger than Moscow, and will have a Super Center in
the area,
regardless of a few efforts by some community members. The Anti-Wal-Mart
effort was only
successful in preventing a Green Wal-Mart that brought jobs and revenue
to the community
from coming into the Moscow city limits. It was not successful in
anything else.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Donovan
>
>
>
> roger hayes wrote:
>
> > Moscow citizens need to take a good look at what the city council's
> > decision to provide water and sewer to the Hawkins company will bring.
> > Yesterday's Daily News posted some serious speculation about WalMart
> > building a Super Center in the Hawkin's development. Earlier, I did
> > have a suspicion that was a distinct possibility. I could not see how
> > a Lowes could be the anchor store. WalMart, Idaho division, remains
> > tight lipped about its plans, but would not rule out the possibility.
> > A local WalMart employee speculated that it is a reality.
> > By providing water and sewer service across the state line, Moscow
> > taxpayers may now subsidize the construction of WalMart. Whitman
> > county taxpayers are providing over 10 million in infrastructure
> > development. This is an ultimate irony since both communities have
> > waged campaigns against the building of a Super Center in their
> > communities. And in Moscow's case, we are dealing a vast economic
blow
> > to our community.
> > Much more is going on than we citizens know. What other "deals" are
> > happening behind closed doors?
> > I do feel that if WalMart comes in it will prove how inept, and most
> > likely, corrupt the current Moscow city council is. The council will
> > no doubt plead ignorance, and do so with an arrogant smile.
> We need to do something and do it quickly. Any ideas?
> >
>
> > Roger Hayes
> >
>
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