<DIV>Joe,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wouldn't it follow that if you don't want a Wal-Mart anywhere on the planet, that it is a lost cause to spend time asking you where one ought to be placed since you wouldn't support it anyway?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think building the apartments there was not the best place, but it was the best available. I think allowing students to live within walking distance of school is a good idea, not a bad one. I think building lots of apartments in Moscow makes housing more affordable. Moscow being more affordable makes attending UI more affordable which helps student enrollment and the over all economy in Moscow. When you have students paying $700 for an apartment, it is hard for most students to afford school. That is as much as a house in most other parts of Idaho. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think you should call Wal-Mart what it is, not made up names. I think it shows a level of disrespect when the only people that call
it that are people opposed to it. They changed the name so it would fit on a bumper sticker. So, yes, it is demeaning to the people that work at the store, and the shoppers that depend on it to afford the things they need to live.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Best Regards,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Donovan<BR><BR><B><I>Joe Campbell <joekc@adelphia.net></I></B> wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">I didn't say that putting the Super Walmart behind the mall would make things better than they are now. I said putting it on the east side of town would make things worse than they are now. There are not now huge groups of people who drive from Pullman to the east side of Moscow. There are some but not a lot. If there were a Super Walmart at Mountain View and Rt. 8, there would be huge groups of people from Pullman driving to the east side of Moscow and that would make an already bad traffic
flow problem worse. Putting the Super Walmart near the mall would not, it seems, increase the traffic flow problems from east to west too much. Traffic will be worse than it is now but not worse than it would have been were the original plan to have been implemented.<BR><BR>--<BR>Joe Campbell<BR><BR>---- "g. crabtree" <JAMPOT@ROADRUNNER.COM>wrote: <BR><BR>=============<BR>This is confusing. If A st. had been developed as intense commercial area, <BR>as is being suggested and all the apartments had been built to the east, <BR>wouldn't the problems be at least as bad as they are now if not worse? <BR>Students walking to school would be causing safety problems as they were <BR>forced to cross Washington, Main, and Jackson two thirds of which comprise <BR>Idaho's main north/south conduit. All the people living on the east side <BR>would still need to be able to make the trek to the retail development that <BR>would be compacted into the limited west retail area. It seems to me
that it <BR>would simply be the same problem in reverse with the added disadvantage of <BR>it becoming even more difficult for pedestrians to be able to walk to their <BR>shopping destination along with a further trek to get to school. It seems to <BR>me it would make much more sense to allow commercial/retail development to <BR>grow naturally along both the north/south axis as well as the east/west with <BR>a more natural blend of residential. The "traffic problem" really just seems <BR>to be another in a long line of canards thrown out to artificially stymie <BR>development in Moscow.<BR><BR>g<BR>----- Original Message ----- <BR>From: "Saundra Lund" <SSLUND_2007@VERIZON.NET><BR>To: "'Joe Campbell'" <JOEKC@ADELPHIA.NET>; <PKRAUT@MOSCOW.COM><BR>Cc: <VISION2020@MAIL-GW.FSR.NET><BR>Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 6:44 PM<BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Recall the city council<BR><BR><BR>Hi Joe,<BR><BR>In part, you wrote:<BR>"Growth without vision will only create more problems
than it can solve. The<BR>apartments on A Street are a fine example of this."<BR><BR>Amen to that! Pat wanted to talk about the short-sightedness of some<BR>people, and I think that's a great topic and A Street is a great example!<BR><BR>So, who is responsible for the debacle that is A Street now??? Surely, it's<BR>NOT the previous council. Inquiring minds want to know!<BR><BR><BR>Saundra Lund<BR>Moscow, ID<BR><BR>The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do<BR>nothing.<BR>~ Edmund Burke<BR><BR>***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2008 through life plus<BR>70 years, Saundra Lund. Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside<BR>the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of the<BR>author.*****<BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: vision2020-bounces@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com]<BR>On Behalf Of Joe Campbell<BR>Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 5:10 PM<BR>To:
pkraut@moscow.com<BR>Cc: vision2020@mail-gw.fsr.net<BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Recall the city council<BR><BR>Pat,<BR><BR>It is not elitist to note that it is difficult to get from the west side of<BR>town to the east side and vice versa. There is a traffic flow problem that<BR>would only be made worse by building on the east side. Solve the traffic<BR>problem first and then build. That is all I'm suggesting!<BR><BR>Growth without vision will only create more problems than it can solve. The<BR>apartments on A Street are a fine example of this. Who benefits? A small<BR>minority and that is all.<BR><BR>--<BR>Joe Campbell<BR><BR>---- pkraut@moscow.com wrote:<BR><BR>=============<BR>This attitude is exactly why Aaron is no longer on the council. If 68% of<BR>the city of Moscow lives on the other side of town from the current 'big'<BR>mall why are we still only building on that side of town? We won't! We<BR>need more shopping on this side where people live...end of story. It
is<BR>elitist at best for you and others to decide that everyone in town will<BR>shop only where you say without considering the needs of everyone in<BR>town. The old council was voted in by an group who saw this as the one<BR>and only way to grow or change anything and you might note they are no<BR>longer there. When we all learned what they meant by 'smart growth' we<BR>realized that is was not what we needed nor wanted.<BR><BR><BR><BR>> First, no one threatened the previous council. They were elected in<BR>part because of their<BR>ideas about smart growth vs. growth at any cost.<BR>><BR>> Second, if and when the Hawkins area starts to develop, it will have as<BR>much to do with<BR>the current council selling water rights and opening up the flood gates<BR>(no pun intended)<BR>as anything else. Why not complain about that?<BR>><BR>> Third, some of us (me at least) were opposed to the Super Walmart<BR>location -- on the east<BR>side of town, which would have
caused huge traffic problems -- as opposed<BR>to Walmart per<BR>se. I'd rather see Walmart develop on the west side of town rather than<BR>the east. I'd<BR>rather even see it developed in Washington than across from the East Side<BR>Mall.<BR>><BR>> Fourth, one might ask, Why didn't Super Walmart develop on the west<BR>side of town? Part of<BR>the answer is that the area of town which was zoned for that type of<BR>purpose (viz. A<BR>Street) was eventually turned into apartments. It happened well before<BR>the mayor and<BR>previous council were in office, when back door deals were common and<BR>ignorance of the<BR>comprehensive plan was celebrated. I fear much the same from the current<BR>council, as the<BR>details of the last Hawkins seem to reveal.<BR>><BR>> Find out the facts, Donovan, and criticize the folks who deserve<BR>criticism. If A Street<BR>were available for Super Walmart -- which would benefit most of the folks<BR>in town -- as<BR>opposed to
apartments -- which benefit a minority -- there would not have<BR>been the level<BR>of opposition that there was. I wouldn't have opposed such a development.<BR>Not that I would<BR>have liked it -- I'm still anti-Walmart for reasons other than their<BR>location on the<BR>Palouse -- but I wouldn't have opposed a Super Walmart on A Street.<BR>><BR>> --<BR>> Joe Campbell<BR>><BR>> ---- Donovan Arnold <DONOVANJARNOLD2005@YAHOO.COM>wrote:<BR>><BR>> =============<BR>> Like we didn't see this coming?<BR>><BR>> The Moscow City Council rejected fair efforts by Wal-Mart to play<BR>ball according to the<BR>rules laid out by Moscow. Now Wal-Mart is going across the street to play<BR>ball over there.<BR>You didn't think that was going to happen? Of course it is.<BR>><BR>> This is why people, economic professors included, were saying to the<BR>then Moscow City<BR>Council and Mayor to work with Wal-Mart so we have the revenue, set
the<BR>environmental<BR>standards, and the layout to our advantage.<BR>><BR>> When a handful of noisy vocal, we know what's best, residents showed<BR>up to threaten the<BR>council if they voted to support Wal-Mart, they with that vote, gave 100%<BR>of the power,<BR>revenue, and jobs to Whitman County, just one mile away. Was it worth it?<BR>I think not.<BR>><BR>> Wal-Mart is much bigger than Moscow, and will have a Super Center in<BR>the area,<BR>regardless of a few efforts by some community members. The Anti-Wal-Mart<BR>effort was only<BR>successful in preventing a Green Wal-Mart that brought jobs and revenue<BR>to the community<BR>from coming into the Moscow city limits. It was not successful in<BR>anything else.<BR>><BR>> Best Regards,<BR>><BR>> Donovan<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> roger hayes <RHAYES@TURBONET.COM>wrote:<BR>><BR>> > Moscow citizens need to take a good look at what the city council's<BR>> > decision to provide
water and sewer to the Hawkins company will bring.<BR>> > Yesterday's Daily News posted some serious speculation about WalMart<BR>> > building a Super Center in the Hawkin's development. Earlier, I did<BR>> > have a suspicion that was a distinct possibility. I could not see how<BR>> > a Lowes could be the anchor store. WalMart, Idaho division, remains<BR>> > tight lipped about its plans, but would not rule out the possibility.<BR>> > A local WalMart employee speculated that it is a reality.<BR>> > By providing water and sewer service across the state line, Moscow<BR>> > taxpayers may now subsidize the construction of WalMart. Whitman<BR>> > county taxpayers are providing over 10 million in infrastructure<BR>> > development. This is an ultimate irony since both communities have<BR>> > waged campaigns against the building of a Super Center in their<BR>> > communities. And in Moscow's case, we are dealing
a vast economic<BR>blow<BR>> > to our community.<BR>> > Much more is going on than we citizens know. What other "deals" are<BR>> > happening behind closed doors?<BR>> > I do feel that if WalMart comes in it will prove how inept, and most<BR>> > likely, corrupt the current Moscow city council is. The council will<BR>> > no doubt plead ignorance, and do so with an arrogant smile.<BR>> We need to do something and do it quickly. Any ideas?<BR>> ><BR>><BR>> > Roger Hayes<BR>> ><BR>><BR>> =======================================================<BR>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> http://www.fsr.net<BR>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> =======================================================<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> ---------------------------------<BR>> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with
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