[Vision2020] Vision2020 Digest, Vol 21, Issue 36

Fri Mar 7 17:26:58 PST 2008

So, you are assuming that the story is absolute truth. What if it isn't???

> 
> And it's the same soldier who fights for freedom from religious 
oppression
> who should never be denied a promotion because he is not an evangelical
fun> damentalist.> From: vision2020-request at moscow.com> Subject: 
Vision2020
Dige> st, Vol 21, Issue 36> To: vision2020 at moscow.com> Date: Fri, 7 Mar 
2008
12:0> 0:01 -0800> > Send Vision2020 mailing list submissions to>
vision2020 at mosco> w.com> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide 
Web, visit>
http://> mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020> or, via email, send 
a message
> with subject or body 'help' to> vision2020-request at moscow.com> > You can
re> ach the person managing the list at> vision2020-owner at moscow.com> > 
When
re> plying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific> 
than "Re:
Con> tents of Vision2020 digest..."> > > Today's Topics:> > 1. Re: Of, By 
& For
> SOME of the pe (lfalen)> 2. It is the soldier (lfalen)> > >
---------------> -------------------------------------------------------> 
> Message: 1>
Date> : Fri, 07 Mar 2008 10:21:44 -0800> From: lfalen 
<lfalen at turbonet.com>>
Subj> ect: Re: [Vision2020] Of, By & For SOME of the pe> To: "Tom Hansen"
<thanse> n at moscow.com>, Chasuk <chasuk at gmail.com>,> 
<donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>,
> vision2020 at moscow.com, "donald> edwards" <donaledwards at hotmail.com>>
Messag> e-ID: <30bc5071a8a355b33b72163dc07a60a8 at turbonet.com>> Content-
Type:
text/p> lain; charset="utf-8"> > Tom is essentially right here. The Army 
prints
a>  person's religion on their dog tags, however to my knowledge they do 
not
p> rint Atheist. Instead "No Preference" is printed.> Roger> > -----
Original
m> essage-----> From: Tom Hansen thansen at moscow.com> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 
2008
06> :49:21 -0800> To: Chasuk chasuk at gmail.com, 
donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com,
vi> sion2020 at moscow.com, donald edwards donaledwards at hotmail.com> 
Subject: Re:
> [Vision2020] Of, By & For SOME of the pe> > > The Army supports 
virtually
a> ll faiths.> > > > I sugeest yo uboth read up on it before yo umake any
furt> her claims.> > > > http://www.usachcs.army.mil/> > > > Tom Hansen> >
Moscow> , Idaho> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 10:55 PM, 
Donovan
A> rnold> > > <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:> > > > > > > My 
sympathy
i> s with the victim, which is the US taxpayer having to > > deal with> > 
> >
> frivolous lawsuits for things that ultimately serve no purpose.> > > > 
> >
> > The reason that other soldiers are allowed to meet with religious > >
lea> ders> > > > isn't for a hobby. It is because at any moment they 
could be
me> eting > > their> > > > Maker. So they see a religious leader to 
prepare
for>  that event, last > > rites> > > > and preparing for the end of this
life.>>  > > > > > Soldiers (military personnel in general) 
aren't "allowed" to
mee> t with> > > religious leaders -- it's a right they exercise just 
like you
d> o, no> > > strings attached. There is no permission involved, which is
what> > > > you seem to be be implying. If this isn't your implication, 
then
nip>>  > > my missaprehension in the bud.> > > > > > > It is not to have a
commun> ity meeting, play golf, bingo, eat donuts and> > > > discuss the 
stupidity
> of those that think there is a super being > > floating on> > > > a
cloud.>>  > > > > > Some military attend worship services officiated by 
chaplains,
s> ome> > > attend "normal" services. There isn't any rule. Chaplains 
work> >
> > stateside and abroad, during war and during peace. They do indeed 
get> >
> > involved in social activities with their congregation, including 
golf,>
>>  > bingo, eating donuts, spaghetti feeds, and bible studies, where> > >
ath> eism, agnosticism, pantheism, Buddhism, and all variety of belief> > 
> are
> discussed, much like in "normal" religious communities.> > > > > > Most
the>  time, military aren't actually in any more jeopardy of> > > meeting 
their
> maker than an average civilian. But the chaplains don't> > > close up
shop.>  The still spread the gospel -- usually in a fairly> > > low-key, 
ecumical
> way -- and hosting bingo parties, donut and coffee> > > klatches,
spaghetti>  feeds, and bible studies.> > > > > > Atheists don't need to 
make amends
wi> th God, because they don't> > > > believe in one.> > > > > > Correct. 
But
t> heir freedom to commingle still shouldn't be curtailed,> > > which is 
what
> the lawsuit was ultimately about. Stop atheists from> > > commingling, 
and
> next they will stop Mormons, Seven Day Adventists,> > > Jehovah's
Witnesses> , and members of any minority belief system that> > > the 
status quo
regard>  with suspicion or distaste.> > > > > > As a non-theist, I know 
how
comfort> ing it can be to associate with> > > others of my kind, 
especially when
str> uggling in a high stress> > > environment. When I was sitting in 
Taif,
Saud> i Arabia, far from my> > > wife and children, uncertain when, or 
if, I
woul> d return, fellowship> > > would have been nice.> > > > > > Did you 
know
tha> t there were many converts to Islam during Desert> > > Storm and 
Desert
Shi> eld? A few of the converts were white, but most> > > were black. 
Standing
i> n line at the chow hall, waiting for my portion> > > of forbidden pork,
sud> denly the black airman who had eaten pork on> > > Monday wasn't 
eating it
o> n Tuesday. Surreptitious prayer mats> > > appeared. This was pre-9/11, 
but
> Islam was even then perceived with> > > alarm by many of the Christian
comm> unity on Taif. Still, atheists> > > were a lower species.> > > > > 
> Some
p> eople are non-theists for the wrong reasons. Some become> > > non-
theists
o> ut of anger, out of petulance, or out of the desire to> > > shock. 
Quite a
> few, however, become non-theists after a long> > > struggle, and end up 
as
> non-theists as prisoners of their own> > > conscience. These people 
don't
a> dopt non-theism casually, any more> > > than most people would take on
lepr> osy casually.> > > > > > So the fellowship of one's peers is 
arguably
doubl> y important to a> > > non-believer. We are in a hostile environment
regardl> ess of our> > > physical location. There is hyperbole involved 
here, but
no> t much.> > > > > > Three cheers to Spc. Jeremy Hall for standing up 
for
me,>  and others> > > like me. I count him as a "true" American, who
understands>  what he> > > has sworn to protect from firsthand 
experience.> > > > > >
Ch> as> > > > > >
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> > http://www.fsr.net > > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com> > >
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> > > "People who ridicule others while hiding behind
anonym> ous monikers in chat-> > room forums are neither brave nor 
clever." > > >
>>  - Latah County Sheriff Wayne Rausch (August 21,> > 2007)> > > >
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-----------------------> > Message: 2>
> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 10:42:13 -0800> From: lfalen 
<lfalen at turbonet.com>>
> Subject: [Vision2020] It is the soldier> To: vision2020 at moscow.com>
Message> -ID: <85e6fa20767aa84951e5e9fc51cc5701 at turbonet.com>> Content-
Type:
text/pl> ain; charset="utf-8"> > This was presented by the mother of Pvt. 
Cory
Dep> ew in honor of her son who gave his life in Operation Iraqi 
Freedom.> > It
> is the Soldier> > It is the soldier, not the reporter> Who has given us
fre> edom of the press.> It is the soldier, not the poet> Who has given us
freed> om of speech.> > It is the soldier, not the campus organizer> Who 
has
given>  us the freedom to demonstrate.> It is the soldier, not the 
lawyer> Who
has>  given us the right to a fair trial.> > It is the soldier> Who 
salutes th
f> lag,> Who serves under the flag,> Whose coffin is draped in the flag,> 
Who
> allows the protester to burn the flag.> > Charles M. Province> > Roger> 
>
>>  > > > ------------------------------> >
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==> =========================> =========================> ===> > End of 
Vision2020 Digest, Vol 21, Issue 36>
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