[Vision2020] Vision2020 Digest, Vol 21, Issue 36

donald edwards donaledwards at hotmail.com
Fri Mar 7 12:45:16 PST 2008


And it's the same soldier who fights for freedom from religious oppression who should never be denied a promotion because he is not an evangelical fundamentalist.> From: vision2020-request at moscow.com> Subject: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 21, Issue 36> To: vision2020 at moscow.com> Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 12:00:01 -0800> > Send Vision2020 mailing list submissions to> vision2020 at moscow.com> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to> vision2020-request at moscow.com> > You can reach the person managing the list at> vision2020-owner at moscow.com> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific> than "Re: Contents of Vision2020 digest..."> > > Today's Topics:> > 1. Re: Of, By & For SOME of the pe (lfalen)> 2. It is the soldier (lfalen)> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > Message: 1> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 10:21:44 -0800> From: lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Of, By & For SOME of the pe> To: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>, Chasuk <chasuk at gmail.com>,> <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>, vision2020 at moscow.com, "donald> edwards" <donaledwards at hotmail.com>> Message-ID: <30bc5071a8a355b33b72163dc07a60a8 at turbonet.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> > Tom is essentially right here. The Army prints a person's religion on their dog tags, however to my knowledge they do not print Atheist. Instead "No Preference" is printed.> Roger> > -----Original message-----> From: Tom Hansen thansen at moscow.com> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 06:49:21 -0800> To: Chasuk chasuk at gmail.com, donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com, vision2020 at moscow.com, donald edwards donaledwards at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Of, By & For SOME of the pe> > > The Army supports virtually all faiths.> > > > I sugeest yo uboth read up on it before yo umake any further claims.> > > > http://www.usachcs.army.mil/> > > > Tom Hansen> > Moscow, Idaho> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 10:55 PM, Donovan Arnold> > > <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:> > > > > > > My sympathy is with the victim, which is the US taxpayer having to > > deal with> > > > frivolous lawsuits for things that ultimately serve no purpose.> > > > > > > The reason that other soldiers are allowed to meet with religious > > leaders> > > > isn't for a hobby. It is because at any moment they could be meeting > > their> > > > Maker. So they see a religious leader to prepare for that event, last > > rites> > > > and preparing for the end of this life.> > > > > > Soldiers (military personnel in general) aren't "allowed" to meet with> > > religious leaders -- it's a right they exercise just like you do, no> > > strings attached. There is no permission involved, which is what> > > you seem to be be implying. If this isn't your implication, then nip> > > my missaprehension in the bud.> > > > > > > It is not to have a community meeting, play golf, bingo, eat donuts and> > > > discuss the stupidity of those that think there is a super being > > floating on> > > > a cloud.> > > > > > Some military attend worship services officiated by chaplains, some> > > attend "normal" services. There isn't any rule. Chaplains work> > > stateside and abroad, during war and during peace. They do indeed get> > > involved in social activities with their congregation, including golf,> > > bingo, eating donuts, spaghetti feeds, and bible studies, where> > > atheism, agnosticism, pantheism, Buddhism, and all variety of belief> > > are discussed, much like in "normal" religious communities.> > > > > > Most the time, military aren't actually in any more jeopardy of> > > meeting their maker than an average civilian. But the chaplains don't> > > close up shop. The still spread the gospel -- usually in a fairly> > > low-key, ecumical way -- and hosting bingo parties, donut and coffee> > > klatches, spaghetti feeds, and bible studies.> > > > > > Atheists don't need to make amends with God, because they don't> > > > believe in one.> > > > > > Correct. But their freedom to commingle still shouldn't be curtailed,> > > which is what the lawsuit was ultimately about. Stop atheists from> > > commingling, and next they will stop Mormons, Seven Day Adventists,> > > Jehovah's Witnesses, and members of any minority belief system that> > > the status quo regard with suspicion or distaste.> > > > > > As a non-theist, I know how comforting it can be to associate with> > > others of my kind, especially when struggling in a high stress> > > environment. When I was sitting in Taif, Saudi Arabia, far from my> > > wife and children, uncertain when, or if, I would return, fellowship> > > would have been nice.> > > > > > Did you know that there were many converts to Islam during Desert> > > Storm and Desert Shield? A few of the converts were white, but most> > > were black. Standing in line at the chow hall, waiting for my portion> > > of forbidden pork, suddenly the black airman who had eaten pork on> > > Monday wasn't eating it on Tuesday. Surreptitious prayer mats> > > appeared. This was pre-9/11, but Islam was even then perceived with> > > alarm by many of the Christian community on Taif. Still, atheists> > > were a lower species.> > > > > > Some people are non-theists for the wrong reasons. Some become> > > non-theists out of anger, out of petulance, or out of the desire to> > > shock. Quite a few, however, become non-theists after a long> > > struggle, and end up as non-theists as prisoners of their own> > > conscience. These people don't adopt non-theism casually, any more> > > than most people would take on leprosy casually.> > > > > > So the fellowship of one's peers is arguably doubly important to a> > > non-believer. We are in a hostile environment regardless of our> > > physical location. There is hyperbole involved here, but not much.> > > > > > Three cheers to Spc. Jeremy Hall for standing up for me, and others> > > like me. I count him as a "true" American, who understands what he> > > has sworn to protect from firsthand experience.> > > > > > Chas> > > > > > =======================================================> > > List services made available by First Step Internet, > > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. > > > http://www.fsr.net > > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com> > > =======================================================> > > > > > > > > "People who ridicule others while hiding behind anonymous monikers in chat-> > room forums are neither brave nor clever." > > > > - Latah County Sheriff Wayne Rausch (August 21,> > 2007)> > > > ---------------------------------------------> > This message was sent by First Step Internet.> > http://www.fsr.com/> > > > > > =======================================================> > List services made available by First Step Internet, > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. > > http://www.fsr.net > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com> > =======================================================> > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 2> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 10:42:13 -0800> From: lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com>> Subject: [Vision2020] It is the soldier> To: vision2020 at moscow.com> Message-ID: <85e6fa20767aa84951e5e9fc51cc5701 at turbonet.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> > This was presented by the mother of Pvt. Cory Depew in honor of her son who gave his life in Operation Iraqi Freedom.> > It is the Soldier> > It is the soldier, not the reporter> Who has given us freedom of the press.> It is the soldier, not the poet> Who has given us freedom of speech.> > It is the soldier, not the campus organizer> Who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.> It is the soldier, not the lawyer> Who has given us the right to a fair trial.> > It is the soldier> Who salutes th flag,> Who serves under the flag,> Whose coffin is draped in the flag,> Who allows the protester to burn the flag.> > Charles M. Province> > Roger> > > > > > ------------------------------> > =======================================================> List services made available by First Step Internet, > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. > http://www.fsr.net > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com> =======================================================> > End of Vision2020 Digest, Vol 21, Issue 36> ******************************************
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