[Vision2020] Vision2020 Digest, Vol 21, Issue 36

Fri Mar 7 20:24:46 PST 2008

"And it's the same soldier who fights for freedom from religious oppression who should never be denied a promotion because he is not an evangelical fundamentalist."

  Donald, I think you should know, I think this line is crap because we all know that people that are not fundamentalist Christians get promoted every year in the military. 

  Best Regards,

  Donovan

donald edwards <donaledwards at hotmail.com> wrote:
      .hmmessage P  {  margin:0px;  padding:0px  }  body.hmmessage  {  FONT-SIZE: 10pt;  FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma  }    
And it's the same soldier who fights for freedom from religious oppression who should never be denied a promotion because he is not an evangelical fundamentalist.

> From: vision2020-request at moscow.com
> Subject: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 21, Issue 36
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 12:00:01 -0800
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Re: Of, By & For SOME of the pe (lfalen)
> 2. It is the soldier (lfalen)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 10:21:44 -0800
> From: lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Of, By & For SOME of the pe
> To: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>, Chasuk <chasuk at gmail.com>,
> <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>, vision2020 at moscow.com, "donald
> edwards" <donaledwards at hotmail.com>
> Message-ID: <30bc5071a8a355b33b72163dc07a60a8 at turbonet.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Tom is essentially right here. The Army prints a person's religion on their dog tags, however to my knowledge they do not print Atheist. Instead "No Preference" is printed.
> Roger
> 
> -----Original message-----
> From: Tom Hansen thansen at moscow.com
> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 06:49:21 -0800
> To: Chasuk chasuk at gmail.com, donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com, vision2020 at moscow.com, donald edwards donaledwards at hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Of, By & For SOME of the pe
> 
> > The Army supports virtually all faiths.
> > 
> > I sugeest yo uboth read up on it before yo umake any further claims.
> > 
> > http://www.usachcs.army.mil/
> > 
> > Tom Hansen
> > Moscow, Idaho
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 10:55 PM, Donovan Arnold
> > > <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > My sympathy is with the victim, which is the US taxpayer having to 
> > deal with
> > > > frivolous lawsuits for things that ultimately serve no purpose.
> > > 
> > > > The reason that other soldiers are allowed to meet with religious 
> > leaders
> > > > isn't for a hobby. It is because at any moment they could be meeting 
> > their
> > > > Maker. So they see a religious leader to prepare for that event, last 
> > rites
> > > > and preparing for the end of this life.
> > > 
> > > Soldiers (military personnel in general) aren't "allowed" to meet with
> > > religious leaders -- it's a right they exercise just like you do, no
> > > strings attached. There is no permission involved, which is what
> > > you seem to be be implying. If this isn't your implication, then nip
> > > my missaprehension in the bud.
> > > 
> > > > It is not to have a community meeting, play golf, bingo, eat donuts and
> > > > discuss the stupidity of those that think there is a super being 
> > floating on
> > > > a cloud.
> > > 
> > > Some military attend worship services officiated by chaplains, some
> > > attend "normal" services. There isn't any rule. Chaplains work
> > > stateside and abroad, during war and during peace. They do indeed get
> > > involved in social activities with their congregation, including golf,
> > > bingo, eating donuts, spaghetti feeds, and bible studies, where
> > > atheism, agnosticism, pantheism, Buddhism, and all variety of belief
> > > are discussed, much like in "normal" religious communities.
> > > 
> > > Most the time, military aren't actually in any more jeopardy of
> > > meeting their maker than an average civilian. But the chaplains don't
> > > close up shop. The still spread the gospel -- usually in a fairly
> > > low-key, ecumical way -- and hosting bingo parties, donut and coffee
> > > klatches, spaghetti feeds, and bible studies.
> > > 
> > > Atheists don't need to make amends with God, because they don't
> > > > believe in one.
> > > 
> > > Correct. But their freedom to commingle still shouldn't be curtailed,
> > > which is what the lawsuit was ultimately about. Stop atheists from
> > > commingling, and next they will stop Mormons, Seven Day Adventists,
> > > Jehovah's Witnesses, and members of any minority belief system that
> > > the status quo regard with suspicion or distaste.
> > > 
> > > As a non-theist, I know how comforting it can be to associate with
> > > others of my kind, especially when struggling in a high stress
> > > environment. When I was sitting in Taif, Saudi Arabia, far from my
> > > wife and children, uncertain when, or if, I would return, fellowship
> > > would have been nice.
> > > 
> > > Did you know that there were many converts to Islam during Desert
> > > Storm and Desert Shield? A few of the converts were white, but most
> > > were black. Standing in line at the chow hall, waiting for my portion
> > > of forbidden pork, suddenly the black airman who had eaten pork on
> > > Monday wasn't eating it on Tuesday. Surreptitious prayer mats
> > > appeared. This was pre-9/11, but Islam was even then perceived with
> > > alarm by many of the Christian community on Taif. Still, atheists
> > > were a lower species.
> > > 
> > > Some people are non-theists for the wrong reasons. Some become
> > > non-theists out of anger, out of petulance, or out of the desire to
> > > shock. Quite a few, however, become non-theists after a long
> > > struggle, and end up as non-theists as prisoners of their own
> > > conscience. These people don't adopt non-theism casually, any more
> > > than most people would take on leprosy casually.
> > > 
> > > So the fellowship of one's peers is arguably doubly important to a
> > > non-believer. We are in a hostile environment regardless of our
> > > physical location. There is hyperbole involved here, but not much.
> > > 
> > > Three cheers to Spc. Jeremy Hall for standing up for me, and others
> > > like me. I count him as a "true" American, who understands what he
> > > has sworn to protect from firsthand experience.
> > > 
> > > Chas
> > > 
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> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > "People who ridicule others while hiding behind anonymous monikers in chat-
> > room forums are neither brave nor clever." 
> > 
> > - Latah County Sheriff Wayne Rausch (August 21,
> > 2007)
> > 
> > ---------------------------------------------
> > This message was sent by First Step Internet.
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> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 10:42:13 -0800
> From: lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com>
> Subject: [Vision2020] It is the soldier
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Message-ID: <85e6fa20767aa84951e5e9fc51cc5701 at turbonet.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> This was presented by the mother of Pvt. Cory Depew in honor of her son who gave his life in Operation Iraqi Freedom.
> 
> It is the Soldier
> 
> It is the soldier, not the reporter
> Who has given us freedom of the press.
> It is the soldier, not the poet
> Who has given us freedom of speech.
> 
> It is the soldier, not the campus organizer
> Who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.
> It is the soldier, not the lawyer
> Who has given us the right to a fair trial.
> 
> It is the soldier
> Who salutes th flag,
> Who serves under the flag,
> Whose coffin is draped in the flag,
> Who allows the protester to burn the flag.
> 
> Charles M. Province
> 
> Roger
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
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> 
> End of Vision2020 Digest, Vol 21, Issue 36
> ******************************************

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