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<BR>And it's the same soldier who fights for freedom from religious oppression who should never be denied a promotion because he is not an evangelical fundamentalist.<BR><BR><BR>> From: vision2020-request@moscow.com<BR>> Subject: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 21, Issue 36<BR>> To: vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 12:00:01 -0800<BR>> <BR>> Send Vision2020 mailing list submissions to<BR>> vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> <BR>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<BR>> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020<BR>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<BR>> vision2020-request@moscow.com<BR>> <BR>> You can reach the person managing the list at<BR>> vision2020-owner@moscow.com<BR>> <BR>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<BR>> than "Re: Contents of Vision2020 digest..."<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Today's Topics:<BR>> <BR>> 1. Re: Of, By & For SOME of the pe (lfalen)<BR>> 2. It is the soldier (lfalen)<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>> <BR>> Message: 1<BR>> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 10:21:44 -0800<BR>> From: lfalen <lfalen@turbonet.com><BR>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Of, By & For SOME of the pe<BR>> To: "Tom Hansen" <thansen@moscow.com>, Chasuk <chasuk@gmail.com>,<BR>> <donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com>, vision2020@moscow.com, "donald<BR>> edwards" <donaledwards@hotmail.com><BR>> Message-ID: <30bc5071a8a355b33b72163dc07a60a8@turbonet.com><BR>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<BR>> <BR>> Tom is essentially right here. The Army prints a person's religion on their dog tags, however to my knowledge they do not print Atheist. Instead "No Preference" is printed.<BR>> Roger<BR>> <BR>> -----Original message-----<BR>> From: Tom Hansen thansen@moscow.com<BR>> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 06:49:21 -0800<BR>> To: Chasuk chasuk@gmail.com, donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com, vision2020@moscow.com, donald edwards donaledwards@hotmail.com<BR>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Of, By & For SOME of the pe<BR>> <BR>> > The Army supports virtually all faiths.<BR>> > <BR>> > I sugeest yo uboth read up on it before yo umake any further claims.<BR>> > <BR>> > http://www.usachcs.army.mil/<BR>> > <BR>> > Tom Hansen<BR>> > Moscow, Idaho<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > > On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 10:55 PM, Donovan Arnold<BR>> > > <donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com> wrote:<BR>> > > <BR>> > > > My sympathy is with the victim, which is the US taxpayer having to <BR>> > deal with<BR>> > > > frivolous lawsuits for things that ultimately serve no purpose.<BR>> > > <BR>> > > > The reason that other soldiers are allowed to meet with religious <BR>> > leaders<BR>> > > > isn't for a hobby. It is because at any moment they could be meeting <BR>> > their<BR>> > > > Maker. So they see a religious leader to prepare for that event, last <BR>> > rites<BR>> > > > and preparing for the end of this life.<BR>> > > <BR>> > > Soldiers (military personnel in general) aren't "allowed" to meet with<BR>> > > religious leaders -- it's a right they exercise just like you do, no<BR>> > > strings attached. There is no permission involved, which is what<BR>> > > you seem to be be implying. If this isn't your implication, then nip<BR>> > > my missaprehension in the bud.<BR>> > > <BR>> > > > It is not to have a community meeting, play golf, bingo, eat donuts and<BR>> > > > discuss the stupidity of those that think there is a super being <BR>> > floating on<BR>> > > > a cloud.<BR>> > > <BR>> > > Some military attend worship services officiated by chaplains, some<BR>> > > attend "normal" services. There isn't any rule. Chaplains work<BR>> > > stateside and abroad, during war and during peace. They do indeed get<BR>> > > involved in social activities with their congregation, including golf,<BR>> > > bingo, eating donuts, spaghetti feeds, and bible studies, where<BR>> > > atheism, agnosticism, pantheism, Buddhism, and all variety of belief<BR>> > > are discussed, much like in "normal" religious communities.<BR>> > > <BR>> > > Most the time, military aren't actually in any more jeopardy of<BR>> > > meeting their maker than an average civilian. But the chaplains don't<BR>> > > close up shop. The still spread the gospel -- usually in a fairly<BR>> > > low-key, ecumical way -- and hosting bingo parties, donut and coffee<BR>> > > klatches, spaghetti feeds, and bible studies.<BR>> > > <BR>> > > Atheists don't need to make amends with God, because they don't<BR>> > > > believe in one.<BR>> > > <BR>> > > Correct. But their freedom to commingle still shouldn't be curtailed,<BR>> > > which is what the lawsuit was ultimately about. Stop atheists from<BR>> > > commingling, and next they will stop Mormons, Seven Day Adventists,<BR>> > > Jehovah's Witnesses, and members of any minority belief system that<BR>> > > the status quo regard with suspicion or distaste.<BR>> > > <BR>> > > As a non-theist, I know how comforting it can be to associate with<BR>> > > others of my kind, especially when struggling in a high stress<BR>> > > environment. When I was sitting in Taif, Saudi Arabia, far from my<BR>> > > wife and children, uncertain when, or if, I would return, fellowship<BR>> > > would have been nice.<BR>> > > <BR>> > > Did you know that there were many converts to Islam during Desert<BR>> > > Storm and Desert Shield? A few of the converts were white, but most<BR>> > > were black. Standing in line at the chow hall, waiting for my portion<BR>> > > of forbidden pork, suddenly the black airman who had eaten pork on<BR>> > > Monday wasn't eating it on Tuesday. Surreptitious prayer mats<BR>> > > appeared. This was pre-9/11, but Islam was even then perceived with<BR>> > > alarm by many of the Christian community on Taif. Still, atheists<BR>> > > were a lower species.<BR>> > > <BR>> > > Some people are non-theists for the wrong reasons. Some become<BR>> > > non-theists out of anger, out of petulance, or out of the desire to<BR>> > > shock. Quite a few, however, become non-theists after a long<BR>> > > struggle, and end up as non-theists as prisoners of their own<BR>> > > conscience. These people don't adopt non-theism casually, any more<BR>> > > than most people would take on leprosy casually.<BR>> > > <BR>> > > So the fellowship of one's peers is arguably doubly important to a<BR>> > > non-believer. We are in a hostile environment regardless of our<BR>> > > physical location. There is hyperbole involved here, but not much.<BR>> > > <BR>> > > Three cheers to Spc. Jeremy Hall for standing up for me, and others<BR>> > > like me. I count him as a "true" American, who understands what he<BR>> > > has sworn to protect from firsthand experience.<BR>> > > <BR>> > > Chas<BR>> > > <BR>> > > =======================================================<BR>> > > List services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <BR>> > > http://www.fsr.net <BR>> > > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> > > =======================================================<BR>> > > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > "People who ridicule others while hiding behind anonymous monikers in chat-<BR>> > room forums are neither brave nor clever." <BR>> > <BR>> > - Latah County Sheriff Wayne Rausch (August 21,<BR>> > 2007)<BR>> > <BR>> > ---------------------------------------------<BR>> > This message was sent by First Step Internet.<BR>> > http://www.fsr.com/<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > =======================================================<BR>> > List services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <BR>> > http://www.fsr.net <BR>> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> > =======================================================<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> ------------------------------<BR>> <BR>> Message: 2<BR>> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 10:42:13 -0800<BR>> From: lfalen <lfalen@turbonet.com><BR>> Subject: [Vision2020] It is the soldier<BR>> To: vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> Message-ID: <85e6fa20767aa84951e5e9fc51cc5701@turbonet.com><BR>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<BR>> <BR>> This was presented by the mother of Pvt. Cory Depew in honor of her son who gave his life in Operation Iraqi Freedom.<BR>> <BR>> It is the Soldier<BR>> <BR>> It is the soldier, not the reporter<BR>> Who has given us freedom of the press.<BR>> It is the soldier, not the poet<BR>> Who has given us freedom of speech.<BR>> <BR>> It is the soldier, not the campus organizer<BR>> Who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.<BR>> It is the soldier, not the lawyer<BR>> Who has given us the right to a fair trial.<BR>> <BR>> It is the soldier<BR>> Who salutes th flag,<BR>> Who serves under the flag,<BR>> Whose coffin is draped in the flag,<BR>> Who allows the protester to burn the flag.<BR>> <BR>> Charles M. Province<BR>> <BR>> Roger<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> ------------------------------<BR>> <BR>> =======================================================<BR>> List services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <BR>> http://www.fsr.net <BR>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> =======================================================<BR>> <BR>> End of Vision2020 Digest, Vol 21, Issue 36<BR>> ******************************************<BR><br /><hr />Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. <a href='http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008' target='_new'>Get it now!</a></body>
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