[Vision2020] GITMO Detainees Can Challenge Detention

Tom Ivie the_ivies3 at yahoo.com
Mon Jun 16 17:09:07 PDT 2008 

So now you are saying that semantics are relevant. 

Tom & Liz Ivie

--- On Mon, 6/16/08, Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] GITMO Detainees Can Challenge Detention
To: vision2020 at moscow.com, the_ivies3 at yahoo.com
Date: Monday, June 16, 2008, 5:50 PM



"Tell that to the soldier who is brought up on and then convicted of manslaughter or murder charges for shooting someone in a "war" zone."
 
Tom,
 
You hit the nail on the head. Terrorists are given more rights than our soldiers. The Geneva Convention doesn't take note of a military conflict being a declared war or not. 
 
Best Regards,
 
Donovan

--- On Mon, 6/16/08, Tom Ivie <the_ivies3 at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Tom Ivie <the_ivies3 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] GITMO Detainees Can Challenge Detention
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Monday, June 16, 2008, 4:19 PM






Donovan,
WHAT???
" If he is acting on his own behalf, and against his government, he is a traitor, and should be given such punishment, death after a military tribunal."

Are you talking about our government or theirs? So let their government deal with them (if you are talking about their government). I don't have a problem with that.

"The semantics of the military conflict are irrelevant."

Tell that to the soldier who is brought up on and then convicted of manslaughter or murder charges for shooting someone in a "war" zone.  -Tom

Tom & Liz Ivie

--- On Mon, 6/16/08, Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] GITMO Detainees Can Challenge Detention
To: the_ivies3 at yahoo.com, vision2020 at moscow.com, "lfalen" <lfalen at turbonet.com>
Date: Monday, June 16, 2008, 4:59 PM







Roger,
 
That is my thinking too on the catch and release theory. Most soldiers will just kill them then risk them getting away. 
 
Tom,
 
The semantics of the military conflict are irrelevant. If the combatant is fighting on behalf of his government, he needs to be classified as a POW and treated as such under the Geneva Convention and the leaders of his government held responsible for war crimes. If he is acting on his own behalf, and against his government, he is a traitor, and should be given such punishment, death after a military tribunal. 
 
Best Regards,
 
Donovan
 
 

--- On Mon, 6/16/08, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:

From: lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] GITMO Detainees Can Challenge Detention
To: the_ivies3 at yahoo.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Monday, June 16, 2008, 2:54 PM

Tom and Liz
Regardless of the semantics on a declaration of war, If they were captured
during a battle, they should be considered prisoners of war. To release them
and sent them home, the take home message to our solders is- Take no prisoners.
Roger
-----Original message-----
From: Tom Ivie the_ivies3 at yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 14:24:45 -0700
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] GITMO Detainees�Can Challenge Detention

> This was the topic of a family discussion this weekend. One argument I
heard was that you have to define "war" in the
Constitution.  The argument
 was that the Constitution refers to war
between the U.S. and another country, not individuals and not groups. Though I
haven't verified this by any means. The family member went on to say that
the U.S. never went to war with Afghanistan. Afghanistan is where many of the
detainees�were captured. If this is the case, are they really prisoners of
war?  
> 
> Tom & Liz Ivie
> 
> --- On Mon, 6/16/08, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
> From: lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] GITMO Detainees Can Challenge Detention
> To: "Donovan Arnold"
<donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>, "Chasuk"
<chasuk at gmail.com>
> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Date: Monday, June 16, 2008, 3:09 PM
> 
> Most of these people were captured on the battlefield and a more
appropriately
> should
 be treated as prisoners of war. This is entirety different from
criminal
> offenses that occur within the US. No nation that I know of has released
> prisoners of war while the war is in progress. If any of theses detainee
are US
> citizens and were aressed within the US, they might legitimately be
subject to
> the US judical system.
> Roger
> -----Original message-----
> From: Donovan Arnold donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 22:02:36 -0700
> To: Chasuk chasuk at gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] GITMO Detainees Can Challenge Detention
> 
> > Chas,
> >    
> >   They were not deprived of due process of law. They were tried,
and found
> guilty before they are sent and locked up in Gitmo. The reason they are
not
> tried in American Civilian Courts is because they are not US Citizens
 and
> because if they were it would expose US classified information which would
put
> US soldiers and possibly civilians at risk. 
> >    
> >   Best Regards,
> >    
> >   Donovan
> > 
> > Chasuk <chasuk at gmail.com> wrote:
> >   On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 18:59, Donovan Arnold
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > Maybe we should create an "Adopt a Detainee"
program. Those
> that think they
> > > are innocent detainees can line up and open their homes
to people
> considered
> > > to be unfairly detained at Gitmo. If they really believe
that these
> people
> > > are innocent, and they are released, it would be unfair
to send them
> back to
> > > their home country to be killed, right?
>
 > 
> > I don't have any opinion as to the guilt or innocence of the
Gitmo
> > detainees, so I won't be inviting them into my house, thank
you.
> > However, that doesn't mean that I believe they should have
been
> > deprived of the due process of law, which is the real subject
here.
> > 
> > Chas
> > 
> > 
> >        
> > 
> 
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> 

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