<table cellspacing='0' cellpadding='0' border='0' background='none' style='font-family:arial;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(51, 51, 51);background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);width:100%;'><tr><td valign='top' style='font: inherit;'>So now you are saying that semantics are relevant. <br><br>Tom & Liz Ivie<br><br>--- On <b>Mon, 6/16/08, Donovan Arnold <i><donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com></i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;">From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com><br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] GITMO Detainees Can Challenge Detention<br>To: vision2020@moscow.com, the_ivies3@yahoo.com<br>Date: Monday, June 16, 2008, 5:50 PM<br><br><div id="yiv394226696"><table style="font-family: arial; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); width: 100%;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="font-family: inherit;
font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-size-adjust: inherit; font-stretch: inherit;" valign="top"><p><br><br>"Tell that to the soldier who is brought up on and then convicted of manslaughter or murder charges for shooting someone in a "war" zone."</p>
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<p>Tom,</p>
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<p>You hit the nail on the head. Terrorists are given more rights than our soldiers. The Geneva Convention doesn't take note of a military conflict being a declared war or not. </p>
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<p>Best Regards,</p>
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<p>Donovan<br><br>--- On <b>Mon, 6/16/08, Tom Ivie <i><the_ivies3@yahoo.com></i></b> wrote:<br></p>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;">From: Tom Ivie <the_ivies3@yahoo.com><br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] GITMO Detainees Can Challenge Detention<br>To: vision2020@moscow.com<br>Date: Monday, June 16, 2008, 4:19 PM<br><br>
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<td valign="top">Donovan,<br>WHAT???<br>" If he is acting on his own behalf, and against his government, he is a traitor, and should be given such punishment, death after a military tribunal."<br><br>Are you talking about our government or theirs? So let their government deal with them (if you are talking about their government). I don't have a problem with that.<br><br>"The semantics of the military conflict are irrelevant."<br><br>Tell that to the soldier who is brought up on and then convicted of manslaughter or murder charges for shooting someone in a "war" zone. -Tom<br><br>Tom & Liz Ivie<br><br>--- On <b>Mon, 6/16/08, Donovan Arnold <i><donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com></i></b> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;">From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com><br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] GITMO Detainees Can Challenge Detention<br>To: the_ivies3@yahoo.com, vision2020@moscow.com, "lfalen" <lfalen@turbonet.com><br>Date: Monday, June 16, 2008, 4:59 PM<br><br>
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<p>Roger,</p>
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<p>That is my thinking too on the catch and release theory. Most soldiers will just kill them then risk them getting away. </p>
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<p>Tom,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The semantics of the military conflict are irrelevant. If the combatant is fighting on behalf of his government, he needs to be classified as a POW and treated as such under the Geneva Convention and the leaders of his government held responsible for war crimes. If he is acting on his own behalf, and against his government, he is a traitor, and should be given such punishment, death after a military tribunal. </p>
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<p>Best Regards,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Donovan</p>
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<p> </p>
<p><br>--- On <b>Mon, 6/16/08, lfalen <i><lfalen@turbonet.com></i></b> wrote:<br></p>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;">From: lfalen <lfalen@turbonet.com><br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] <span>GITMO</span> Detainees Can Challenge Detention<br>To: the_ivies3@yahoo.com, vision2020@moscow.com<br>Date: Monday, June 16, 2008, 2:54 PM<br><br><pre>Tom and Liz<br>Regardless of the semantics on a declaration of war, If they were captured<br>during a battle, they should be considered prisoners of war. To release them<br>and sent them home, the take home message to our solders is- Take no prisoners.<br>Roger<br>-----Original message-----<br>From: Tom Ivie the_ivies3@yahoo.com<br>Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 14:24:45 -0700<br>To: vision2020@moscow.com<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] GITMO Detainees�Can Challenge Detention<br><br>> This was the topic of a family discussion this weekend. One argument I<br>heard was that you have to define "war" in the<br>Constitution.&nbsp; The
argument<br> was that the Constitution refers to war<br>between the U.S. and another country, not individuals and not groups. Though I<br>haven't verified this by any means. The family member went on to say that<br>the U.S. never went to war with Afghanistan. Afghanistan is where many of the<br>detainees�were captured. If this is the case, are they really prisoners of<br>war?&nbsp; <br>> <br>> Tom &amp; Liz Ivie<br>> <br>> --- On Mon, 6/16/08, lfalen &lt;lfalen@turbonet.com&gt; wrote:<br>> From: <span>lfalen</span> &lt;lfalen@turbonet.com&gt;<br>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] GITMO Detainees Can Challenge Detention<br>> To: "Donovan Arnold"<br>&lt;donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com&gt;, "Chasuk"<br>&lt;chasuk@gmail.com&gt;<br>> Cc: vision2020@moscow.com<br>> Date: Monday, June 16, 2008, 3:09 PM<br>> <br>> Most of these people were captured on the battlefield and a
more<br>appropriately<br>> should<br> be treated as prisoners of war. This is entirety different from<br>criminal<br>> offenses that occur within the US. No nation that I know of has released<br>> prisoners of war while the war is in progress. If any of theses detainee<br>are US<br>> citizens and were aressed within the US, they might legitimately be<br>subject to<br>> the US judical system.<br>> Roger<br>> -----Original message-----<br>> From: Donovan Arnold donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com<br>> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 22:02:36 -0700<br>> To: <span>Chasuk</span> chasuk@gmail.com<br>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] GITMO Detainees Can Challenge Detention<br>> <br>> &gt; Chas,<br>> &gt; <br>> &gt; They were not deprived of due process of law. They were tried,<br>and found<br>> guilty before they are sent and locked up in Gitmo. The reason they are<br>not<br>> tried in American Civilian Courts is
because they are not US Citizens<br> and<br>> because if they were it would expose US classified information which would<br>put<br>> US soldiers and possibly civilians at risk. <br>> &gt; <br>> &gt; Best Regards,<br>> &gt; <br>> &gt; Donovan<br>> &gt; <br>> &gt; Chasuk &lt;chasuk@gmail.com&gt; wrote:<br>> &gt; On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 18:59, Donovan Arnold<br>> &gt; wrote:<br>> &gt; <br>> &gt; &gt; Maybe we should create an "Adopt a Detainee"<br>program. Those<br>> that think they<br>> &gt; &gt; are innocent detainees can line up and open their homes<br>to people<br>> considered<br>> &gt; &gt; to be unfairly detained at Gitmo. If they really believe<br>that these<br>> people<br>> &gt; &gt; are innocent, and they are released, it would be unfair<br>to send them<br>> back to<br>> &gt; &gt; their home
country to be killed, right?<br>><br> &gt; <br>> &gt; I don't have any opinion as to the guilt or innocence of the<br>Gitmo<br>> &gt; detainees, so I won't be inviting them into my house, thank<br>you.<br>> &gt; However, that doesn't mean that I believe they should have<br>been<br>> &gt; deprived of the due process of law, which is the real subject<br>here.<br>> &gt; <br>> &gt; Chas<br>> &gt; <br>> &gt; <br>> &gt; <br>> &gt; <br>> <br>> =======================================================<br>> List services made available by First Step Internet, <br>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br>> http://www.fsr.net <br>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> =======================================================<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>>
<br><br>=======================================================<br> List<br> services made available by First Step Internet, <br> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br> http://www.fsr.net <br> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>=======================================================</pre></blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table><br></div></blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table><br></div><pre>=======================================================<br> List services made available by First Step Internet, <br> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br> http://www.fsr.net <br> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>=======================================================</pre></blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table><br>
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