[Vision2020] God's problem

[Ralph Nielsen]

To Ted,

Thanks for your kind words.

Some Hebrews were not content to accept the fact that there is no  
justice in the world, in spite of what God had said. They felt that  
there must be some reward for the heroes and martyrs of their faith.  
Then the idea of individual salvation cropped up. Heretofore all  
promises of future rewards were addressed to Israel as a nation of  
God's Chosen People. So the first explicit promise of individual life  
after death in the Old Testament occurs in the latest book in the OT:  
Daniel 12:2-3. Note that this resurrection is of the physical body,  
not of some hypothetical "spiritual soul." (This idea still survives  
in the later Christian creed,"I believe in the resurrection of the  
body.")

The idea of individual salvation became a runaway success, which we  
still find with us to this day in the New Testament, the Qur'an, the  
Book of Mormon, et al.

Some people, however, find this theory a little too fanciful and  
clearly not based on scientific observation. So they prefer to go  
back to the Old Time Religion, where death is the end, the religion  
of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Ralph Nielsen


On Feb 23, 2008, at 3:49 PM, Ted Moffett wrote:
>
> Ralph et. al.
>
> Thanks for your Biblical scholarship.
>
> Perhaps a few who believe the ultimate purpose of life is not to  
> live in peace on Earth, with respect for all living beings,  
> sustainably, but rather to secure a place in "heaven," apart from  
> the natural support systems of our biosphere on Earth, will  
> consider your comments.  However, there are many powerful reasons  
> so many believe fervently in an eternal afterlife transcending the  
> death of the body, not subject to the vicissitudes of natural  
> variables on our little planet.  Death is conquered, and loved ones  
> gone will be seen again.  Injustice will be eventually righted.   
> And a person's existence is guaranteed a place in the "eternal."   
> It is amazing to observe the power these ideas have over human  
> behavior.  How many have "willingly" sacrificed their life in the  
> firm belief in an eternal and righteous afterlife?
>
> Who among those who fervently believe in an afterlife for the  
> personal soul are open to the validity of the idea of a final  
> personal biological death?
>
> Ted Moffett
>
> On 2/23/08, Ralph Nielsen <nielsen at uidaho.edu> wrote:
> You're right, Ted. But far too many people still look at the world
> thru rose-colored theological glasses. They don't worry about future
> generations because by that time they will be in an imaginary future
> existence where there is no pain or suffering. They think the Bible
> teaches them this. But they don't know (and usually don't want to
> know) that the Bible itself teaches them otherwise.
>
> In the traditional Hebrew/Old Testament religion there is no life
> after death (except a shadowy subexistence down in Sheol). God
> himself says we will not live forever like him (Genesis 3:22-24). Why
> do we suffer? Because we disobey God. This means that God will give
> us everything we deserve while we are alive on the earth. This was
> somewhat modified by the idea that if God doesn't get you while you
> are alive, he will take it out on your children and grandchildren
> unto the 3rd and 4th generation (Exodus 20:5).
>
> But some wise Hebrews rejected this unfair and often untrue scheme of
> things. They could see that the good are often punished and the
> wicked rewarded. But since there is no afterlife in which to be
> rewarded or punished, we just have to admit that we don't know what
> God's ways are. So the best we can do is to eat, drink and enjoy our
> brief life.
>
> The great fictional book of Job explores this problem in greater
> depth. God and his servant Satan make a bet about a good and
> righteous man down on earth called Job. No matter how much suffering
> Satan, at the orders of God, inflicts on Job, Job knows that he does
> not deserve what he is getting. (Job has no idea that he is the
> object of a divine betting game.) Here again, the whole point of the
> drama is based on the fact that there is no life after death. Job's
> cry, "I know that my Redeemer lives" is usually misinterpreted by
> Christian apologists. The Hebrew should more correctly be translated
> "Vindicator." It is not about Jesus Christ several centuries ahead.
> Job knows that his "comforters" are wrong and he is right.
>
> Eventually God himself appears on the scene (ch. 38). But he doesn't
> answer Job's question. All he does is bluster and brag about how
> great and powerful he is and what a little twerp Job is. Of course,
> we know that the reason why God doesn't give Job an answer is because
> there is no answer. What else can the author of the drama say?
>
> Ralph