[Vision2020] God's problem

[Ralph Nielsen]

You're right, Ted. But far too many people still look at the world  
thru rose-colored theological glasses. They don't worry about future  
generations because by that time they will be in an imaginary future  
existence where there is no pain or suffering. They think the Bible  
teaches them this. But they don't know (and usually don't want to  
know) that the Bible itself teaches them otherwise.

In the traditional Hebrew/Old Testament religion there is no life  
after death (except a shadowy subexistence down in Sheol). God  
himself says we will not live forever like him (Genesis 3:22-24). Why  
do we suffer? Because we disobey God. This means that God will give  
us everything we deserve while we are alive on the earth. This was  
somewhat modified by the idea that if God doesn't get you while you  
are alive, he will take it out on your children and grandchildren  
unto the 3rd and 4th generation (Exodus 20:5).

But some wise Hebrews rejected this unfair and often untrue scheme of  
things. They could see that the good are often punished and the  
wicked rewarded. But since there is no afterlife in which to be  
rewarded or punished, we just have to admit that we don't know what  
God's ways are. So the best we can do is to eat, drink and enjoy our  
brief life.

The great fictional book of Job explores this problem in greater  
depth. God and his servant Satan make a bet about a good and  
righteous man down on earth called Job. No matter how much suffering  
Satan, at the orders of God, inflicts on Job, Job knows that he does  
not deserve what he is getting. (Job has no idea that he is the  
object of a divine betting game.) Here again, the whole point of the  
drama is based on the fact that there is no life after death. Job's  
cry, "I know that my Redeemer lives" is usually misinterpreted by  
Christian apologists. The Hebrew should more correctly be translated  
"Vindicator." It is not about Jesus Christ several centuries ahead.  
Job knows that his "comforters" are wrong and he is right.

Eventually God himself appears on the scene (ch. 38). But he doesn't  
answer Job's question. All he does is bluster and brag about how  
great and powerful he is and what a little twerp Job is. Of course,  
we know that the reason why God doesn't give Job an answer is because  
there is no answer. What else can the author of the drama say?

Ralph



On Feb 22, 2008, at 11:24 PM, Ted Moffett wrote:

> If God is an omnipotent, all knowing and all good being, God does  
> not have a problem.  Only limited beings that lack the capability  
> to comprehend such infinite capacities have a "problem."  Having  
> said that, the problem of evil, or suffering, in a universe created  
> by "God," as it has been parsed in the history of theology and  
> philosophy, is a subject that it is difficult to say anything new  
> about.
>
> There are far more opportunities to say something new about  
> environmental sustainability, alternative energy, the problem of  
> CO2/fossil fuel induced climate change, and the connections to  
> these problems with the USA's out of control consumer culture, now  
> to hit the Palouse with an inspiration to attain even higher levels  
> of wanton consumption, with the Hawkins Mall.
>
> If someone has something new to say about the problem of suffering,  
> or the problem of evil, given certain assumptions about a creator  
> "God," theologically speaking, please, enlighten us.
>
> Otherwise, perhaps we should focus on the critical problems of how  
> humanity is to make peace with Nature, before we slide off the  
> cliff of species extinction, ecosystem collapse, and resource  
> depletion, as the human population keeps expanding, as we worship  
> at the alter of materialistic consumption as the primary goal of  
> the human race, as anthropogenic climate change portends to remake  
> our planet into a world unrecognizable to the current generation.
>
> The Hawkins Mall is a local focal point for these critical problems  
> the human race is facing.  And to deny this is to deny the reality  
> of the impacts materialistic consumerism is having on the very  
> fabric of life on our planet.
>
> Hey, what do I know?  I just read the latest science on  
> environmental consequences of human activity and industry, and  
> connect the dots to what we are doing here to the impacts  
> globally.  We are all a "wholly owned subsidiary" of the Earth as a  
> living system.
>
> I'll be long gone when we have reaped what we sow... In the  
> meantime, yes, I am a beneficiary of the capitalist consumer  
> culture, so to some extent, I am criticizing the hand that feeds me...
>
> Ted Moffett
>
> On 2/20/08, Ralph Nielsen <nielsen at uidaho.edu> wrote: RALPH NIELSEN
>
> Here goes the old librarian again. Yesterday on NPR Fresh Air there
> was an interview with Bart Ehrman about his latest book "God's
> Problem: How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question."
>
> It deals with the age-old problem of theodicy: why is there
> suffering in the world?
>
> The web site is
>
> <www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=19096131>
>
> Or go to <www.NPR.org>, then to the "Top emailed stories," and  
> click on
> Bart Ehrman. You can download the interview or listen to it there.
>
> We religious skeptics ought to know about this problem ourselves. We
> can't leave it to God, can we?
>
> I found myself almost completely agreeing with him. I certainly agree
> with him that Ecclesiastes is one of the best books in the Bible.
>
> Good listening and good reading.
>