[Vision2020] God's problem

[Paul Rumelhart]

Starvation isn't suffering?

Paul

Donovan Arnold wrote:
> Chas,
>  
> I don't think the fictional people you listed suffered do you?
>  
> Sudden death is not suffering.
>  
> I also think most people instinctively know to run when a volcano is 
> about to explode, the dogs and cattle know. So do humans. People 
> rationalize their stupid behavior, because they think they are 
> smarter, or don't want to give up property or their life style.
>  
> There are reasons we don't know the direct reason why people suffer. 
> But it is always later discovered to be the fault of humans doing 
> something wrong that they know is wrong.
>  
> This is a better argument though, then Shou, who thinks obesity and 
> brake failure is the result of God's actions.
>  
> I know you don't believe in God, so you can stop playing this 
> insulting stupid game. If you don't want accept the answer that man is 
> the cause of his failure's and suffering, that is your choice. But 
> please stop your bigoted insulting behavior towards those that believe 
> differently than you do.
>  
> Best Regards,
>  
> Donovan
>  
>
>
> */Chasuk <chasuk at gmail.com>/* wrote:
>
>     On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 7:09 PM, Donovan Arnold
>     wrote:
>
>     > Your argument is a gross misinterpretation of what I said,
>     please give me
>     > just an ounce of credit.
>
>     Donovan, yo started this thread with this absurd statement: "Every
>     bit of suffering by humans is caused by humans, WITHOUT EXCEPTION."
>
>     You have since qualified that statement with phrases like:
>
>     "People die from fires USUALLY because..."
>
>     "MOST illnesses... are spread through..."
>
>     "ALMOST ALL of unnecessary human suffering is the result of human
>     society or individuals..."
>
>     "But if you follow the line, it is USUALLY the result of someone, or a
>     society disobeying and doing something wrong that God told them not to
>     do..."
>
>     "There is LITTLE suffering in this world that is not the fault of some
>     human or a group of humans..."
>
>     You can't invoke exceptions while boldly claiming no exceptions.
>
>     You also wrote:
>
>     "Now, I challenge you to find me at least two example of where humans
>     suffer on mass, as a result of God, not because of human actions or
>     in-actions?"
>
>     First, "on mass" (sic) -- en masse? -- is playing unfairly with your
>     original assertion. Second, your own language, as reproduced above,
>     already admits of possible exceptions to your exception-less
>     declaration. Unless you are telling me that you are willing to
>     entertain the possibly of ONE exception, but not two, then you have
>     ipso facto discarded your initial claim. As for meeting you
>     challenge, let me try, ignoring the en masse provision:
>
>     1. Lightening. It should be simple to see that there were probably a
>     few cavemen who were struck and killed by lightening quite
>     blamelessly.
>
>     2. Extinction level events. Whether humans walked the earth during
>     the last extinction level event is arguable, but, on a lesser scale,
>     the Tunguska impact could reasonably be assumed to have caused the
>     death of a few nomads.
>
>     3. When Mt. Tambora erupted in 1816, there were as many as 100,000
>     additional deaths due to volcanic ash (which caused crop failures and
>     subsequent starvation). This starvation was not localized, so you
>     can't foist the blame on stupid people choosing to live in a
>     volcanically-active region.
>
>     Do any of these provide a valid example, or are you going to
>     equivocate again?
>
>     Chas
>
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