[Vision2020] God's problem

[Donovan Arnold]

Chas,
   
  I don't think the fictional people you listed suffered do you?
   
  Sudden death is not suffering. 
   
  I also think most people instinctively know to run when a volcano is about to explode, the dogs and cattle know. So do humans. People rationalize their stupid behavior, because they think they are smarter, or don't want to give up property or their life style. 
   
  There are reasons we don't know the direct reason why people suffer. But it is always later discovered to be the fault of humans doing something wrong that they know is wrong. 
   
  This is a better argument though, then Shou, who thinks obesity and brake failure is the result of God's actions. 
   
  I know you don't believe in God, so you can stop playing this insulting stupid game. If you don't want accept the answer that man is the cause of his failure's and suffering, that is your choice. But please stop your bigoted insulting behavior towards those that believe differently than you do. 
   
  Best Regards,
   
  Donovan
   
  

Chasuk <chasuk at gmail.com> wrote:
  On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 7:09 PM, Donovan Arnold
wrote:

> Your argument is a gross misinterpretation of what I said, please give me
> just an ounce of credit.

Donovan, yo started this thread with this absurd statement: "Every
bit of suffering by humans is caused by humans, WITHOUT EXCEPTION."

You have since qualified that statement with phrases like:

"People die from fires USUALLY because..."

"MOST illnesses... are spread through..."

"ALMOST ALL of unnecessary human suffering is the result of human
society or individuals..."

"But if you follow the line, it is USUALLY the result of someone, or a
society disobeying and doing something wrong that God told them not to
do..."

"There is LITTLE suffering in this world that is not the fault of some
human or a group of humans..."

You can't invoke exceptions while boldly claiming no exceptions.

You also wrote:

"Now, I challenge you to find me at least two example of where humans
suffer on mass, as a result of God, not because of human actions or
in-actions?"

First, "on mass" (sic) -- en masse? -- is playing unfairly with your
original assertion. Second, your own language, as reproduced above,
already admits of possible exceptions to your exception-less
declaration. Unless you are telling me that you are willing to
entertain the possibly of ONE exception, but not two, then you have
ipso facto discarded your initial claim. As for meeting you
challenge, let me try, ignoring the en masse provision:

1. Lightening. It should be simple to see that there were probably a
few cavemen who were struck and killed by lightening quite
blamelessly.

2. Extinction level events. Whether humans walked the earth during
the last extinction level event is arguable, but, on a lesser scale,
the Tunguska impact could reasonably be assumed to have caused the
death of a few nomads.

3. When Mt. Tambora erupted in 1816, there were as many as 100,000
additional deaths due to volcanic ash (which caused crop failures and
subsequent starvation). This starvation was not localized, so you
can't foist the blame on stupid people choosing to live in a
volcanically-active region.

Do any of these provide a valid example, or are you going to equivocate again?

Chas

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