[Vision2020] Shoes thrown at President Bush
Donovan Arnold
donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Fri Dec 19 13:24:48 PST 2008
Kai,
Please read the argument carefully before jumping into the conversation.
I also do believe that terrorists, child molesters, and killers all deserve best friends, a Christmas card, and a criminal defense.
But my argument isn't about that. It is about those with the choice to champion their causes and be their best friends instead of defending their victims and championing the causes of the less fortunate in our society.
It is one thing to defend terrorists, child molesters, and killers, and it is another to freely choose to champion causes that favor them over innocents and victims in our society.
You are clearing trying to change the argument from personal moral decisions of one person's on the clock job of defending Constitutional rights, we all agree on, over that of decisions made regarding what is best for our country, and the real victims in our society.
Best Regards,
Donovan
--- On Thu, 12/18/08, Kai Eiselein, Editor <editor at lataheagle.com> wrote:
> From: Kai Eiselein, Editor <editor at lataheagle.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Shoes thrown at President Bush
> To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com, "vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>, "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> Date: Thursday, December 18, 2008, 3:50 PM
> Because the "terrorists, child molesters, and criminal
> scum" are entitled to
> competent counsel and a fair trial under the U.S.
> Constitution. That is why
> they are defended.
> You know, that piece of parchment that the terrorists would
> love to tear up
> and forget about....
>
>
> From: Donovan Arnold
> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 3:41 PM
> To: vision 2020 ; Sunil Ramalingam
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Shoes thrown at President Bush
>
>
> Typical Sunil,
>
> Find a statement, twist it's meaning. Then blow it up
> as being of the most
> importance.
> Such as taking up my incorrect use of the word
> "foreigner" instead of "non
> US Citizen" to ignore the fact that the US President
> was attacked.
>
> Second, Sunil, you ALWAYS take the side of the criminal,
> the attacker, the
> murder, the terrorist, or the child molester, and turn them
> into the
> helpless victim and US society as the TRUE criminal and
> true source of all
> things evil and wrong.
>
> Third, you make up weak arguments your opponent never made.
> Ridicule it, and
> point to it being flawed. Example: "Our democracy is
> lost because of two
> shoes? Ridiculous." Nobody said that, or believes
> that, and you know that.
>
> Finally, you accuse everyone of launching personal attacks
> against you,
> while doing the same to others and to just as a degree.
> Such as, "You're not
> just full of crap, you're covered with it."
>
> Sunil, you maybe be able to argue better then me. But that
> doesn't make you
> right. Your beliefs are harmful to people. Such as wanting
> to release all
> people from Gitmo, whom we know at least 12 were plotters
> of 9/11. Your work
> puts people who harm innocent people and children in harms
> way. I would
> rather be dead than be a lawyer for the killers, murderers,
> and rapists you
> aide.
>
> You can argue well, no doubt. But what you argue is just
> wrong and evil, in
> my opinion, most the time. Why not use your superpowers to
> help the elderly,
> disabled, sick, and poor, rather then the terrorists, child
> molesters, and
> criminal scum you defend so fervently?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Donovan
>
>
>
>
> --- On Thu, 12/18/08, Sunil Ramalingam
> <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Shoes thrown at President Bush
> To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com, "vision 2020"
> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Date: Thursday, December 18, 2008, 6:11 AM
>
>
> Typical Donovan:
>
> First make an incorrect statement, in this case calling an
> Iraqi a foreigner
> in his own country.
>
> Then when this is pointed out, shift the subject, in this
> case the
> nonsensical sovereignty argument. Our democracy is lost
> because of two
> shoes? Ridiculous.
>
> Third, when someone disagrees with this, launch personal
> attacks that are
> lies and nonsense. You can't prove a single claim you
> make against me
> because you've made it all up. You got nothing,
> Donovan, nothing but your
> loud empty-headed yelling.
>
> You accuse me of supporting expediency? BS. You're
> the guy willing to
> ignore laws to hold 'accused terrorists' forever
> and you accuse me of being
> expedient? BS.
>
> You're not just full of crap, you're covered with
> it.
>
> Sunil
>
> > Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 20:50:58 -0800
> > From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Shoes thrown at President
> Bush
> > To: vision2020 at moscow.com; sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
> >
> > Sunil,
> >
> > I don't have to make stuff up, you provide plenty.
> You throw so many red
> > herrings there must be a Great Lake emptied of them.
> >
> > You move off the topic, and attack something so
> irrelevant to the issue in
> > hopes that nobody notices.
> >
> > You said, in no uncertain terms, you are not concerned
> about the
> > sovereignty of the United States. That was my point,
> you don't care. I do.
> >
> > Your primary argument to me is not about a
> people's right to elect leaders
> > without them being attacked or harassed.
> >
> > You appear to ALWAYS enjoy taking the side of the
> criminal over the
> > victim. In fact, I cannot think of a time when you
> have not.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Donovan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Tue, 12/16/08, Sunil Ramalingam
> <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > From: Sunil Ramalingam
> <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Shoes thrown at
> President Bush
> > > To: "vision 2020"
> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > > Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 8:51 PM
> > > You must have missed the part where I said I
> don't
> > > support throwing shoes at Presidents. That would
> include
> > > Bush. But go ahead and make stuff up; it's
> your strong
> > > suit.
> > >
> > > I don't think this one incident will lead to
> Bush doing
> > > an appreciably worse job.
> > >
> > > I look forward to your next discussion of what is
> - How did
> > > you put it? - what is 'morally and ethically
> > > important.'
> > >
> > > Sunil
> > >
> > > > Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 20:45:39 -0800
> > > > From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Shoes thrown at
> President
> > > Bush
> > > > To: vision2020 at moscow.com;
> sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
> > > >
> > > > Sunil,
> > > >
> > > > The United States, as any nation's
> people, should
> > > have the unalienable right to democratically
> elect its
> > > leaders and representatives without them being
> assaulted or
> > > harassed by the people of another country. What
> is the point
> > > of a democracy if the elected leaders are just
> harassed,
> > > assaulted, or killed while performing their
> duties?
> > > >
> > > > You always present yourself to me as someone
> that
> > > ignores what is morally and ethically important
> for the sake
> > > of whatever is expedient for your cause at the
> time.
> > > >
> > > > You hate Bush, and as far as I can tell, and
> most of
> > > his policies, so you are shoving side a very
> basic and
> > > important right of people for the justification
> of attacking
> > > a man you dislike. No doubt your tune would
> change if it
> > > were a more serious assault against a leader you
> liked.
> > > >
> > > > Best Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Donovan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- On Tue, 12/16/08, Sunil Ramalingam
> > > <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > From: Sunil Ramalingam
> > > <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Shoes thrown
> at
> > > President Bush
> > > > > To: "vision 2020"
> > > <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > > > > Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 5:34
> PM
> > > > > Donovan,
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't give a rat's ass about
> this
> > > guy's
> > > > > citizenship; now that's a red
> herring. I can
> > > see that
> > > > > he wasn't attacked by a foreigner,
> since it
> > > looks like
> > > > > the guy was an Iraqi in his own
> country.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am perturbed that he was able to get
> the second
> > > shoe off,
> > > > > and I don't recommend people throw
> shoes at
> > > presidents,
> > > > > or most other people. I also don't
> think
> > > they should be
> > > > > killed for doing it.
> > > > >
> > > > > What I am least concerned about, and
> what I find
> > > > > remarkable, is the notion that our
> sovereignty
> > > was
> > > > > threatened. When we start showing
> respect for
> > > the
> > > > > sovereignty of other states, I may come
> to see
> > > our own
> > > > > sovereignty has a delicate flower in
> need of
> > > protection.
> > > > > You can keep repeating your concern,
> and I'll
> > > still find
> > > > > it either meaningless or ludicrous.
> Important
> > > issue my foot.
> > > > > That guy wasn't making a statement
> about
> > > sovereignty,
> > > > > he was illustrating his view of Bush.
> > > > >
> > > > > Worrying that our sovereignty was
> somehow
> > > threatened
> > > > > strikes me like worrying about Rush
> > > Limbaugh's ego
> > > > > should he hear a criticism of his
> views.
> > > > >
> > > > > As far as tempting us, apparently they
> did that
> > > by having
> > > > > oil under their ground.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sunil
> > > > >
> > > > > Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 13:01:52 -0800
> > > > > From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> > > > > To: vision2020 at moscow.com;
> tiedye at turbonet.com
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Shoes thrown
> at
> > > President Bush
> > > > >
> > > > > Dave and Sunil,
> > > > >
> > > > > What is clear is that you are not
> bothered by an
> > > attempt to
> > > > > assault the President of the United
> States by
> > > someone that
> > > > > is not a US Citizen.
> > > > >
> > > > > It doesn't matter if the US
> President is
> > > assaulted by a
> > > > > foreigner on his soil or ours. It is
> still an
> > > attack on US
> > > > > Sovereignty. That is the point. If you
> missed
> > > that, I will
> > > > > repeat it; It doesn't matter if the
> US
> > > President is
> > > > > assaulted by a foreigner on his soil or
> ours. Is
> > > is still an
> > > > > attack on US Sovereignty.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think focusing on the fact that the
> US base was
> > > in Iraq,
> > > > > is a big smelly red herring
> intentionally thrown
> > > into to the
> > > > > argument to avert away from the
> important issue
> > > of US
> > > > > security and sovereignty, which is what
> is being
> > > challenged.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > And yes, Sunil, Middle Eastern nations
> do need to
> > > be
> > > > > careful about how they behave because
> the US has
> > > no qualms
> > > > > about blowing people up or invading
> nations. It
> > > is idiotic
> > > > > for a people to tempt and taunt those
> with the
> > > biggest
> > > > > weapons that are also willing to use
> them.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > Donovan
> > > > >
> > > > > --- On Tue, 12/16/08, Dave
> > > <tiedye at turbonet.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > From: Dave <tiedye at turbonet.com>
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Shoes thrown
> at
> > > President Bush
> > > > > To: "vision2020"
> > > <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > > > > Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 8:14
> AM
> > > > >
> > > > > Donovan Arnold wrote:
> > > > > > I meant, Sunil, that the guy who
> attacked
> > > the US
> > > > > President was not a US
> > > > > Citizen. I guess you can play semantics
> if you
> > > want, but I
> > > > > think my meaning was
> > > > > clear.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > Quite clear: you think that the USA
> owns the
> > > world.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dave
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Windows, OSX, or Linux is the same
> choice as:
> > > > > McDonalds, Burger King, or a (real)
> Co-Op.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
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> Editor, Latah Eagle
>
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