[Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered

Janesta janesta at gmail.com
Mon Sep 24 11:57:30 PDT 2007 

The first link is private, the second is MSNBC. The poem, Paster Norman
Niemoller

http://youtube.com/watch?v=SaiWCS10C5s

http://youtube.com/watch?v=tCBcOQkUNjI First They Came for the Jews

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
*Pastor Martin Niemöller*




On 9/24/07, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
>
> I did not see or read about the incident so can't speak to it. I support
> the right to free speech. This does have some limitations though, such as
> crying fire in a crowed theater and disrupting a meeting. I don't know if
> this individual was being disruptive or not. If he was that would be grounds
> for removing him.
> Roger
> -----Original message-----
> From: keely emerinemix kjajmix1 at msn.com
> Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 12:21:04 -0700
> To: "g. crabtree" jampot at roadrunner.com, Sunil
> Ramalingamsunilramalingam at hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered
>
> >
> > Gary, free speech gives everyone "unlimited license to act the
> fool;"  it's when foolishness becomes actually dangerous -- you know,
> yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater -- that it is rightly restricted.   I
> suspect you're aware of that, but partisanship makes it easier to
> momentarily forget that while making, in some vague way, a political
> statement.
> >
> > keely
> >
> >
> > From: jampot at roadrunner.com
> > To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
> > Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 11:56:42 -0700
> > CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I understand perfectly well that you're unhappy
> > with Theresa's boy
> > and I'm skeptical about your assertion. Would you
> > have extended your argument to the Yippies in Chicago in '68? Violence
> as speech
> > in a political setting. I do not believe that the constitution gives a
> person
> > unlimited license to act the fool as long as what they say (or do) can
> in some
> > vague way be construed as a political statement.
> >
> > g
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> > Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 10:49
> > AM
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student
> > tasered
> >
> > > Wrong.  I absolutely would make the identical argument.
> > I'm talking about
> > > the Constitution, not my own preferences.  And
> > isince you missed it, most of
> > > my condemnation here is for the person I
> > voted for in the last election, not
> > > Bush.
> > >
> > >
> > Sunil
> > >
> > >
> > >>From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
> > >>To: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> > >>CC: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student
> > tasered
> > >>Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 18:51:43
> > -0700
> > >>
> > >>I very much doubt that you would be making the same
> > argument if the guy was
> > >>a raving Bush supporter who refused to stand
> > down after his time was up and
> > >>only wanted to hold forth, not ask a
> > specific question.
> > >>
> > >>g
> > >>----- Original Message
> > ----- From: "Sunil Ramalingam"
> > >><sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> > >>Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > >>Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 6:25
> > PM
> > >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student
> > tasered
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>Paul,
> > >>>
> > >>>The
> > possibility that the student was looking to 'shake things up' is,
> > if
> > >>>true, irrelevant.  He was at a political forum engaging
> > in political
> > >>>speech.
> > >>>  That's protected by
> > the First Amendment.  None of us have to like it;
> >
> > >>>it's
> > >>>protected speech.  I wouldn't say there
> > was a 'conspiracy' to shut his
> > >>>views
> > >>>down, but
> > someone made the wrong decision to shut down what was clearly
> > a
> > >>>dialog between him and Kerry.
> > >>>
> > >>>I
> > won't defend the decision to taser him.  I think it's abominable.
> > They
> > >>>shouldn't have been touching him, let alone choosing between
> > options such
> > >>>as
> > >>>electrocuting him or dislocating
> > his shoulder or breaking his wrist.  They
> > >>>were state actors
> > shutting down free speech, and they shouldn't have been
> > >>>doing
> > anything of the sort.  They should have allowed him to exercise
> > his
> > >>>rights.
> > >>>
> > >>>It would be different
> > if he showed up and did this in your living room;
> >
> > >>>but
> > >>>this was a political event.  There are
> > few places where political speech
> > >>>is
> > >>>more
> > appropriate than in this setting.
> > >>>
> > >>>You're right
> > that Kerry didn't initiate anything.  Instead of trying to
> >
> > >>>stop
> > >>>this, he did nothing but drone on.  He
> > could have told the cops there was
> > >>>no
> > >>>need for
> > their action.  He could have reminded them that this is
> > America,
> > >>>and that citizens are allowed to question politicians,
> > and that
> > >>>politicians
> > >>>answer to the People.
> > What a chance to show what free speech means!  But
> > >>>instead
> > he showed once again his innate ability to miss an
> > opportunity;
> > >>>oddly enough, that was the thesis of one of the
> > student's
> > questions.
> > >>>
> > >>>Sunil
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>From:
> > Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
> > >>>>To: Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com>
> > >>>>CC: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>,
> >
> > >>>>vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >>>>Subject: Re:
> > [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered
> > >>>>Date: Fri, 21 Sep
> > 2007 17:34:15 -0700
> > >>>>
> > >>>>I think there are a
> > couple of things going on here.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>The first
> > was a decision by the police to remove him from the
> > microphone
> > >>>>and from the vicinity.  The second was to
> > taser him when they did.  I'm
> > >>>>unsure about the first
> > decision.  I have little pity for him, because I
> > >>>>think
> > he was looking for an avenue to "shake things up".  That's just
> > my
> > >>>>opinion.  I also don't think he was removed from the
> > podium because of
> > >>>>any
> > >>>>specific thing he
> > said.  I don't think he was removed because he
> > was
> > >>>>upsetting Kerry, either.  I think he was removed
> > because he was
> > >>>>recognized
> > >>>>as someone who
> > disrupts public events.  I would rather that they let
> > him
> > >>>>finish his question.  However, I don't think he
> > wanted to be allowed to
> > >>>>finish his question, I think he
> > wanted to make a scene.  I don't see a
> > >>>>conspiracy to
> > shut this man's views down.  If he had asked them calmly
> >
> > >>>>and
> > >>>>politely, he would probably have been
> > fine.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>The decision to taser him when they
> > did I can somewhat agree with.  They
> > >>>>were removing him
> > from the room, and he would not calm down and submit to
> > >>>>that
> > action.  When they had him on the ground, presumably trying to
> > get
> > >>>>cuffs on him, he wouldn't stop shouting and wouldn't
> > cooperate.  So they
> > >>>>tasered him, after warning him they
> > were going to taser him several
> > >>>>times,
> > >>>>in
> > order to shake him up long enough to get control of him.  I think
> > they
> > >>>>chose to do that rather than to do something more
> > damaging, such as
> > >>>>dislocating a shoulder or breaking a
> > wrist.  I say that I can "somewhat"
> > >>>>agree with the
> > decision because I'm not an expert in restraining
> > someone.
> > >>>>Perhaps they had other less headline-making options
> > at their disposal.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>This is all my opinion
> > from watching one of the videos on youtube that
> > >>>>shows the
> > arrest, and from reading comments on various websites on
> > this
> > >>>>guy's history.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>I
> > also think this had nothing to do with Kerry.  He was willing to
> > answer
> > >>>>the questions, and he didn't initiate
> > anything.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Paul
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Ted
> > Moffett wrote:
> > >>>>>Sunil et.
> > al.
> > >>>>>  Sorry, I had not read the story at the
> > "Counterpunch" link you
> >
> > >>>>>offered.
> > >>>>>And given some of the
> > responses to this thread, I wonder how many others
> > >>>>>read
> > the story.  I found out what the student was questioning Kerry
> >
> > >>>>>about
> > >>>>>(the Palast book and the
> > "stolen" election of 2004, etc.) from
> > other
> > >>>>>sources.  The more I find out about what
> > happened in this incident, the
> > >>>>>more disturbing the police
> > response appears.  As the "Counterpunch"
> >
> > >>>>>story
> > >>>>>headline questions, "Why
> > did Senator John Kerry stand idly by?"  I
> >
> > >>>>>wonder
> > >>>>>if Kerry has issued any
> > public responses to the coverage of this story
> >
> > >>>>>in
> > >>>>>the
> > media.
> > >>>>>  Meyer (the tasered student) asked very good
> > questions that need to be
> > >>>>>asked over and
> > over...
> > >>>>>  The questions asked were, according to the
> > "Counterpunch" article:
> > >>>>>  At the conclusion of
> > Kerry's speech, Andrew Meyer, a 21-year old
> > >>>>>journalism
> > student was selected by Senator Kerry to ask a question.
> >
> > >>>>>Meyer
> > >>>>>held up a copy of BBC
> > investigative reporter Greg Palast's book,
> > Armed
> > >>>>>Madhouse, and asked if Kerry was aware that
> > Palast's investigations
> > >>>>>determined that Kerry had
> > actually won the election.  Why, Meyer asked,
> > >>>>>had
> > Kerry conceded the election so quickly when there were so many
> >
> > >>>>>obvious
> > >>>>>examples of vote
> > fraud?  Why, Meyer, went on to ask, was Kerry refusing
> >
> > >>>>>to
> > >>>>>consider Bush's impeachment
> > when Bush was about to initiate another act
> >
> > >>>>>of
> > >>>>>military aggression, this time
> > against
> > Iran?
> >
> >>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>>>Ted
> > Moffett
> > >>>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
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> > >>>
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >>>=======================================================
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
> > >
> > >
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> > communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >
> > >
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> > >
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> > >
> >
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