[Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered

lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com
Mon Sep 24 11:18:20 PDT 2007


I did not see or read about the incident so can't speak to it. I support the right to free speech. This does have some limitations though, such as crying fire in a crowed theater and disrupting a meeting. I don't know if this individual was being disruptive or not. If he was that would be grounds for removing him.
Roger
-----Original message-----
From: keely emerinemix kjajmix1 at msn.com
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 12:21:04 -0700
To: "g. crabtree" jampot at roadrunner.com, Sunil Ramalingamsunilramalingam at hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered

> 
> Gary, free speech gives everyone "unlimited license to act the fool;"  it's when foolishness becomes actually dangerous -- you know, yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater -- that it is rightly restricted.   I suspect you're aware of that, but partisanship makes it easier to momentarily forget that while making, in some vague way, a political statement.
> 
> keely
> 
> 
> From: jampot at roadrunner.com
> To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
> Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 11:56:42 -0700
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand perfectly well that you're unhappy 
> with Theresa's boy
> and I'm skeptical about your assertion. Would you 
> have extended your argument to the Yippies in Chicago in '68? Violence as speech 
> in a political setting. I do not believe that the constitution gives a person 
> unlimited license to act the fool as long as what they say (or do) can in some 
> vague way be construed as a political statement.
>  
> g
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 10:49 
> AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student 
> tasered
> 
> > Wrong.  I absolutely would make the identical argument.  
> I'm talking about 
> > the Constitution, not my own preferences.  And 
> isince you missed it, most of 
> > my condemnation here is for the person I 
> voted for in the last election, not 
> > Bush.
> > 
> > 
> Sunil
> > 
> > 
> >>From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
> >>To: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> >>CC: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student 
> tasered
> >>Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 18:51:43 
> -0700
> >>
> >>I very much doubt that you would be making the same 
> argument if the guy was 
> >>a raving Bush supporter who refused to stand 
> down after his time was up and 
> >>only wanted to hold forth, not ask a 
> specific question.
> >>
> >>g
> >>----- Original Message 
> ----- From: "Sunil Ramalingam" 
> >><sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> >>Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >>Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 6:25 
> PM
> >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student 
> tasered
> >>
> >>
> >>>Paul,
> >>>
> >>>The 
> possibility that the student was looking to 'shake things up' is, 
> if
> >>>true, irrelevant.  He was at a political forum engaging 
> in political 
> >>>speech.
> >>>  That's protected by 
> the First Amendment.  None of us have to like it; 
> 
> >>>it's
> >>>protected speech.  I wouldn't say there 
> was a 'conspiracy' to shut his 
> >>>views
> >>>down, but 
> someone made the wrong decision to shut down what was clearly 
> a
> >>>dialog between him and Kerry.
> >>>
> >>>I 
> won't defend the decision to taser him.  I think it's abominable.  
> They
> >>>shouldn't have been touching him, let alone choosing between 
> options such 
> >>>as
> >>>electrocuting him or dislocating 
> his shoulder or breaking his wrist.  They
> >>>were state actors 
> shutting down free speech, and they shouldn't have been
> >>>doing 
> anything of the sort.  They should have allowed him to exercise 
> his
> >>>rights.
> >>>
> >>>It would be different 
> if he showed up and did this in your living room; 
> 
> >>>but
> >>>this was a political event.  There are 
> few places where political speech 
> >>>is
> >>>more 
> appropriate than in this setting.
> >>>
> >>>You're right 
> that Kerry didn't initiate anything.  Instead of trying to 
> 
> >>>stop
> >>>this, he did nothing but drone on.  He 
> could have told the cops there was 
> >>>no
> >>>need for 
> their action.  He could have reminded them that this is 
> America,
> >>>and that citizens are allowed to question politicians, 
> and that 
> >>>politicians
> >>>answer to the People.  
> What a chance to show what free speech means!  But
> >>>instead 
> he showed once again his innate ability to miss an 
> opportunity;
> >>>oddly enough, that was the thesis of one of the 
> student's 
> questions.
> >>>
> >>>Sunil
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>From: 
> Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
> >>>>To: Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com>
> >>>>CC: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>,  
> 
> >>>>vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>>>Subject: Re: 
> [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered
> >>>>Date: Fri, 21 Sep 
> 2007 17:34:15 -0700
> >>>>
> >>>>I think there are a 
> couple of things going on here.
> >>>>
> >>>>The first 
> was a decision by the police to remove him from the 
> microphone
> >>>>and from the vicinity.  The second was to 
> taser him when they did.  I'm
> >>>>unsure about the first 
> decision.  I have little pity for him, because I
> >>>>think 
> he was looking for an avenue to "shake things up".  That's just 
> my
> >>>>opinion.  I also don't think he was removed from the 
> podium because of 
> >>>>any
> >>>>specific thing he 
> said.  I don't think he was removed because he 
> was
> >>>>upsetting Kerry, either.  I think he was removed 
> because he was 
> >>>>recognized
> >>>>as someone who 
> disrupts public events.  I would rather that they let 
> him
> >>>>finish his question.  However, I don't think he 
> wanted to be allowed to
> >>>>finish his question, I think he 
> wanted to make a scene.  I don't see a
> >>>>conspiracy to 
> shut this man's views down.  If he had asked them calmly 
> 
> >>>>and
> >>>>politely, he would probably have been 
> fine.
> >>>>
> >>>>The decision to taser him when they 
> did I can somewhat agree with.  They
> >>>>were removing him 
> from the room, and he would not calm down and submit to
> >>>>that 
> action.  When they had him on the ground, presumably trying to 
> get
> >>>>cuffs on him, he wouldn't stop shouting and wouldn't 
> cooperate.  So they
> >>>>tasered him, after warning him they 
> were going to taser him several 
> >>>>times,
> >>>>in 
> order to shake him up long enough to get control of him.  I think 
> they
> >>>>chose to do that rather than to do something more 
> damaging, such as
> >>>>dislocating a shoulder or breaking a 
> wrist.  I say that I can "somewhat"
> >>>>agree with the 
> decision because I'm not an expert in restraining 
> someone.
> >>>>Perhaps they had other less headline-making options 
> at their disposal.
> >>>>
> >>>>This is all my opinion 
> from watching one of the videos on youtube that
> >>>>shows the 
> arrest, and from reading comments on various websites on 
> this
> >>>>guy's history.
> >>>>
> >>>>I 
> also think this had nothing to do with Kerry.  He was willing to 
> answer
> >>>>the questions, and he didn't initiate 
> anything.
> >>>>
> >>>>Paul
> >>>>
> >>>>Ted 
> Moffett wrote:
> >>>>>Sunil et. 
> al.
> >>>>>  Sorry, I had not read the story at the 
> "Counterpunch" link you 
> 
> >>>>>offered.
> >>>>>And given some of the 
> responses to this thread, I wonder how many others
> >>>>>read 
> the story.  I found out what the student was questioning Kerry 
> 
> >>>>>about
> >>>>>(the Palast book and the 
> "stolen" election of 2004, etc.) from 
> other
> >>>>>sources.  The more I find out about what 
> happened in this incident, the
> >>>>>more disturbing the police 
> response appears.  As the "Counterpunch" 
> 
> >>>>>story
> >>>>>headline questions, "Why 
> did Senator John Kerry stand idly by?"  I 
> 
> >>>>>wonder
> >>>>>if Kerry has issued any 
> public responses to the coverage of this story 
> 
> >>>>>in
> >>>>>the 
> media.
> >>>>>  Meyer (the tasered student) asked very good 
> questions that need to be
> >>>>>asked over and 
> over...
> >>>>>  The questions asked were, according to the 
> "Counterpunch" article:
> >>>>>  At the conclusion of 
> Kerry's speech, Andrew Meyer, a 21-year old
> >>>>>journalism 
> student was selected by Senator Kerry to ask a question. 
> 
> >>>>>Meyer
> >>>>>held up a copy of BBC 
> investigative reporter Greg Palast's book, 
> Armed
> >>>>>Madhouse, and asked if Kerry was aware that 
> Palast's investigations
> >>>>>determined that Kerry had 
> actually won the election.  Why, Meyer asked,
> >>>>>had 
> Kerry conceded the election so quickly when there were so many 
> 
> >>>>>obvious
> >>>>>examples of vote 
> fraud?  Why, Meyer, went on to ask, was Kerry refusing 
> 
> >>>>>to
> >>>>>consider Bush's impeachment 
> when Bush was about to initiate another act 
> 
> >>>>>of
> >>>>>military aggression, this time 
> against 
> Iran?
> >>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>Ted 
> Moffett
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>>
> >>
> >>
> > 
> 
> > 
> > 
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> services made available by First Step Internet, 
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> 
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