[Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered
lfalen
lfalen at turbonet.com
Mon Sep 24 11:18:20 PDT 2007
I did not see or read about the incident so can't speak to it. I support the right to free speech. This does have some limitations though, such as crying fire in a crowed theater and disrupting a meeting. I don't know if this individual was being disruptive or not. If he was that would be grounds for removing him.
Roger
-----Original message-----
From: keely emerinemix kjajmix1 at msn.com
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 12:21:04 -0700
To: "g. crabtree" jampot at roadrunner.com, Sunil Ramalingamsunilramalingam at hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered
>
> Gary, free speech gives everyone "unlimited license to act the fool;" it's when foolishness becomes actually dangerous -- you know, yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater -- that it is rightly restricted. I suspect you're aware of that, but partisanship makes it easier to momentarily forget that while making, in some vague way, a political statement.
>
> keely
>
>
> From: jampot at roadrunner.com
> To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
> Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 11:56:42 -0700
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I understand perfectly well that you're unhappy
> with Theresa's boy
> and I'm skeptical about your assertion. Would you
> have extended your argument to the Yippies in Chicago in '68? Violence as speech
> in a political setting. I do not believe that the constitution gives a person
> unlimited license to act the fool as long as what they say (or do) can in some
> vague way be construed as a political statement.
>
> g
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 10:49
> AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student
> tasered
>
> > Wrong. I absolutely would make the identical argument.
> I'm talking about
> > the Constitution, not my own preferences. And
> isince you missed it, most of
> > my condemnation here is for the person I
> voted for in the last election, not
> > Bush.
> >
> >
> Sunil
> >
> >
> >>From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
> >>To: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> >>CC: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student
> tasered
> >>Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 18:51:43
> -0700
> >>
> >>I very much doubt that you would be making the same
> argument if the guy was
> >>a raving Bush supporter who refused to stand
> down after his time was up and
> >>only wanted to hold forth, not ask a
> specific question.
> >>
> >>g
> >>----- Original Message
> ----- From: "Sunil Ramalingam"
> >><sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> >>Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >>Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 6:25
> PM
> >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student
> tasered
> >>
> >>
> >>>Paul,
> >>>
> >>>The
> possibility that the student was looking to 'shake things up' is,
> if
> >>>true, irrelevant. He was at a political forum engaging
> in political
> >>>speech.
> >>> That's protected by
> the First Amendment. None of us have to like it;
>
> >>>it's
> >>>protected speech. I wouldn't say there
> was a 'conspiracy' to shut his
> >>>views
> >>>down, but
> someone made the wrong decision to shut down what was clearly
> a
> >>>dialog between him and Kerry.
> >>>
> >>>I
> won't defend the decision to taser him. I think it's abominable.
> They
> >>>shouldn't have been touching him, let alone choosing between
> options such
> >>>as
> >>>electrocuting him or dislocating
> his shoulder or breaking his wrist. They
> >>>were state actors
> shutting down free speech, and they shouldn't have been
> >>>doing
> anything of the sort. They should have allowed him to exercise
> his
> >>>rights.
> >>>
> >>>It would be different
> if he showed up and did this in your living room;
>
> >>>but
> >>>this was a political event. There are
> few places where political speech
> >>>is
> >>>more
> appropriate than in this setting.
> >>>
> >>>You're right
> that Kerry didn't initiate anything. Instead of trying to
>
> >>>stop
> >>>this, he did nothing but drone on. He
> could have told the cops there was
> >>>no
> >>>need for
> their action. He could have reminded them that this is
> America,
> >>>and that citizens are allowed to question politicians,
> and that
> >>>politicians
> >>>answer to the People.
> What a chance to show what free speech means! But
> >>>instead
> he showed once again his innate ability to miss an
> opportunity;
> >>>oddly enough, that was the thesis of one of the
> student's
> questions.
> >>>
> >>>Sunil
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>From:
> Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
> >>>>To: Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com>
> >>>>CC: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>,
>
> >>>>vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>>>Subject: Re:
> [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered
> >>>>Date: Fri, 21 Sep
> 2007 17:34:15 -0700
> >>>>
> >>>>I think there are a
> couple of things going on here.
> >>>>
> >>>>The first
> was a decision by the police to remove him from the
> microphone
> >>>>and from the vicinity. The second was to
> taser him when they did. I'm
> >>>>unsure about the first
> decision. I have little pity for him, because I
> >>>>think
> he was looking for an avenue to "shake things up". That's just
> my
> >>>>opinion. I also don't think he was removed from the
> podium because of
> >>>>any
> >>>>specific thing he
> said. I don't think he was removed because he
> was
> >>>>upsetting Kerry, either. I think he was removed
> because he was
> >>>>recognized
> >>>>as someone who
> disrupts public events. I would rather that they let
> him
> >>>>finish his question. However, I don't think he
> wanted to be allowed to
> >>>>finish his question, I think he
> wanted to make a scene. I don't see a
> >>>>conspiracy to
> shut this man's views down. If he had asked them calmly
>
> >>>>and
> >>>>politely, he would probably have been
> fine.
> >>>>
> >>>>The decision to taser him when they
> did I can somewhat agree with. They
> >>>>were removing him
> from the room, and he would not calm down and submit to
> >>>>that
> action. When they had him on the ground, presumably trying to
> get
> >>>>cuffs on him, he wouldn't stop shouting and wouldn't
> cooperate. So they
> >>>>tasered him, after warning him they
> were going to taser him several
> >>>>times,
> >>>>in
> order to shake him up long enough to get control of him. I think
> they
> >>>>chose to do that rather than to do something more
> damaging, such as
> >>>>dislocating a shoulder or breaking a
> wrist. I say that I can "somewhat"
> >>>>agree with the
> decision because I'm not an expert in restraining
> someone.
> >>>>Perhaps they had other less headline-making options
> at their disposal.
> >>>>
> >>>>This is all my opinion
> from watching one of the videos on youtube that
> >>>>shows the
> arrest, and from reading comments on various websites on
> this
> >>>>guy's history.
> >>>>
> >>>>I
> also think this had nothing to do with Kerry. He was willing to
> answer
> >>>>the questions, and he didn't initiate
> anything.
> >>>>
> >>>>Paul
> >>>>
> >>>>Ted
> Moffett wrote:
> >>>>>Sunil et.
> al.
> >>>>> Sorry, I had not read the story at the
> "Counterpunch" link you
>
> >>>>>offered.
> >>>>>And given some of the
> responses to this thread, I wonder how many others
> >>>>>read
> the story. I found out what the student was questioning Kerry
>
> >>>>>about
> >>>>>(the Palast book and the
> "stolen" election of 2004, etc.) from
> other
> >>>>>sources. The more I find out about what
> happened in this incident, the
> >>>>>more disturbing the police
> response appears. As the "Counterpunch"
>
> >>>>>story
> >>>>>headline questions, "Why
> did Senator John Kerry stand idly by?" I
>
> >>>>>wonder
> >>>>>if Kerry has issued any
> public responses to the coverage of this story
>
> >>>>>in
> >>>>>the
> media.
> >>>>> Meyer (the tasered student) asked very good
> questions that need to be
> >>>>>asked over and
> over...
> >>>>> The questions asked were, according to the
> "Counterpunch" article:
> >>>>> At the conclusion of
> Kerry's speech, Andrew Meyer, a 21-year old
> >>>>>journalism
> student was selected by Senator Kerry to ask a question.
>
> >>>>>Meyer
> >>>>>held up a copy of BBC
> investigative reporter Greg Palast's book,
> Armed
> >>>>>Madhouse, and asked if Kerry was aware that
> Palast's investigations
> >>>>>determined that Kerry had
> actually won the election. Why, Meyer asked,
> >>>>>had
> Kerry conceded the election so quickly when there were so many
>
> >>>>>obvious
> >>>>>examples of vote
> fraud? Why, Meyer, went on to ask, was Kerry refusing
>
> >>>>>to
> >>>>>consider Bush's impeachment
> when Bush was about to initiate another act
>
> >>>>>of
> >>>>>military aggression, this time
> against
> Iran?
> >>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>Ted
> Moffett
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>>
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> >>>
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>>=======================================================
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
> >
> >
> =======================================================
> > List
> services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the
> communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>
> >
> http://www.fsr.net
>
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >
> =======================================================
> >
>
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