[Vision2020] principals of Developers of the Palouse LLC
g. crabtree
jampot at roadrunner.com
Sun Sep 16 19:42:07 PDT 2007
Thank you for so graphically proving the point I was making to Ms. Mix. Do you propose that CC not be allowed to purchase property anywhere? That some sort of special discriminatory, nonsensical provision be put in place that limits their ability to acquire land, all in the name of protecting the sacred tax rolls?
A more effective strategy for you and the rest of the Moon bat brigade might be to encourage your nemesis to buy as much property as humanly possible. The upkeep on the unneeded buildings, servicing the debt, etc. will likely bankrupt them and your problem will be solved. The properties can then be purchased at fire sale prices by "the right kind of people" and turned into whatever your golden vision for "a productive and diverse" downtown Moscow might entail.
g
----- Original Message -----
From: J Ford
To: g. crabtree ; vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 6:01 PM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] principals of Developers of the Palouse LLC
Are you purposefully being dumb? If and when CC claims either educational or religious use for a building - there goes the neighborhood taxes.
Gawd, get a hint, wouldya!?
J :]
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From: jampot at roadrunner.com
To: kjajmix1 at msn.com; london at moscow.com; thansen at moscow.com; pkraut at moscow.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 16:26:08 -0700
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] principals of Developers of the Palouse LLC
They may be clear but they are most certainly incorrect. For example, a property in the CDB valued at one million dollars generates the same tax revenue as a million dollar property anywhere else in Moscow. The notion that if a given entity is prevented from acquiring an high dollar value building in the CBD they will make do with a tar paper shack somewhere else in Moscow, there by saving the city from losing tax monies is not sound reasoning. If a group wants a highly visible and desirable location and is willing to pay for it, the effect on the cities coffers will be identical irrespective of whether the land is downtown or elsewhere.
And a side note to Keely Emerinemix: My trust is not something you will be experiencing anytime soon. I couldn't agree with you any more vigorously that my arguments don't require any terrific effort to grasp. It's just that there seems to no shortage of people who don't. If my efforts in making myself plain come across as unpleasant, my apologies. However, a lecture from you on the topic of "snottiness" is remarkably similar to being chided on matters of public decorum by Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan, or Brittney Spears., Forgive me if I only afford it the consideration it's due.
g
----- Original Message -----
From: keely emerinemix
To: Bill London ; g. crabtree ; Tom Hansen ; 'Pat Kraut' ; 'vision2020'
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 3:35 PM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] principals of Developers of the Palouse LLC
Thanks, Bill, for the clarity of your comments. And a side note to Gary Crabtree:
Trust me on this one. There's no one on Vision who, in criticizing Christ Church and its relations with the community, needs you to "slow it way down" so that they can grasp your arguments. Believe me, your points are not so complex as to require terrific effort in grasping them, and they're not cogent or correct enough for any of us to have to work real hard in refuting them. You might find civil discourse a bit taxing, but I regret that snottiness seems to come so easily for you.
One thing I've learned in my life is that people who disagree with me are not automatically stupid, and people who agree with me are not automatically brilliant. Those who fail to see that, however, aren't automatically anything, but damned if they don't somehow end up sounding like the former.
Coincidence? I think not.
keely
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From: london at moscow.com
To: jampot at roadrunner.com; thansen at moscow.com; pkraut at moscow.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 14:14:48 -0700
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] principals of Developers of the Palouse LLC
The Christ Church leadership is committed to buying downtown property for "strategic" (Doug Wilson's word) or "political" (my word) reasons, not religious ones. The church wants to take over downtown.
Downtown property (Central Business District) may be taxed at a common rate with other properties, but each individual downtown property is more valuable (and thus pays more property tax) than similar parcels located elsewhere. So, when those downtown parcels are bought by Christ Church, Moscow takes a big hit in revenue.
Diluting the Central Business District with churches and schools (as is the Christ Church plan) creates a less vibrant downtown with fewer businesses and many more parking problems.
BL
----- Original Message -----
From: g. crabtree
To: Tom Hansen ; 'Pat Kraut' ; 'vision2020'
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] principals of Developers of the Palouse LLC
OK t, I'll try this one last time and slow it way down for you. We can't be taking "the next step" when it's clear that lesson one has not been properly integrated.
1. Property used for church related activities will be tax exempt whether it's downtown, mid-town, or on the outskirts of our little burg.
2. Property in the CBD is not taxed at a different rate than property anywhere else. The tax loss is the same whether it's downtown, mid-town, or on the outskirts of our little burg.
3. Property owned by a church that is NOT used for church related activities IS taxed, just the same as all other similar properties such as the others that are downtown, mid-town, or on the outskirts of our little burg. A prime example of this would be the space occupied by the restaurant in the NSA building.
4. Property owned by church members that is not used for church related activities is taxed, just the same as all other similar properties such as the others that are downtown, mid-town, or on the outskirts of our little burg. Examples of this would include Bucer's, Hall Closet, and the former Goodwill location. All owned by local hard working, tax paying, law abiding citizens.
5. Having dozens of under utilized buildings is an expense that no small church can afford. Simply from a maintenance stand point it would make no sense to have them lay fallow. This should calm your fears that a local ministry will buy up all of the CBD and eliminate Moscow's tax base.
Thank you for your time, you may now go back to posting photos of the same signs we all drive past every day.
g
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Hansen
To: 'g. crabtree' ; 'Pat Kraut' ; 'vision2020'
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 7:56 AM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] principals of Developers of the Palouse LLC
Very, very good, g –
Now, let’s move on to the next step, ok?
The key word in central business district is BUSINESS. And, yes, I am going to “fall back” (as you say) on the “T” word (taxes).
Businesses located in the central business district paying taxes. That is what helps a community grow. NOT tax-exempt churches, schools, etc. etc., all managed by the same piss ant group of sock puppets with nothing better to do than whine about ever-increasing property taxes that become the burden of local hard-working, tax-paying, law-abiding proprietors.
As much as I would love to sit here and explain reality to you, there is an election coming up and I have miles to go before I sleep.
Seeya round town, Moscow.
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
"We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The college students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
- Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
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From: g. crabtree [mailto:jampot at roadrunner.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 7:26 AM
To: Tom Hansen; 'Pat Kraut'; 'vision2020'
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] principals of Developers of the Palouse LLC
Question, th
Of all the property in the central business district, what percent is owned by CC? One percent? Maybe two?
Lets follow your query to its logical end. CC owns fifty to sixty percent of the CBD. So what? Please don't fall back on the property tax issue since we all know that church property, used for church purposes will be tax exempt no matter where it is, downtown or elsewhere. If it's owned by the church or its members and used for commercial purposes it will be taxed the same as any other parcel.
With this being the case, why would it matter if they were to own every square inch of downtown Moscow? What exactly would be the down side? The maddening rectal itch you might receive from such a turn of events really doesn't count.
g
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Hansen
To: 'Pat Kraut' ; 'vision2020'
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 6:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] principals of Developers of the Palouse LLC
Question, PK –
Of ALL the churches of ALL the countries throughout the world, which ONE owns (and is buying up) property in the central business district of Moscow, Idaho?
Seeya round town, Moscow.
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
“I’ll just speak for our church, in Christ Church. If I found out that a member of our church or a church officer was lying to non-believers in the community, as a way to get by or protect themself or protect his reputation, yes, he’d be disciplined.”
- Doug Wilson (January 31, 2007)
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From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Pat Kraut
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 10:19 PM
To: vision2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] principals of Developers of the Palouse LLC
And, I would ask if you are aware of how much property is owned by groups or individuals in this area that have nothing to do with CC? The catholic church? The Mormons? The whoever?? This is persecution of one group against whom you have a personal vendetta and has nothing to do with the community as a whole...get over it! 07 11:45 AM
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=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Hansen
To: 'g. crabtree' ; 'Pat Kraut' ; 'vision2020'
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 7:56 AM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] principals of Developers of the Palouse LLC
Very, very good, g –
Now, let’s move on to the next step, ok?
The key word in central business district is BUSINESS. And, yes, I am going to “fall back” (as you say) on the “T” word (taxes).
Businesses located in the central business district paying taxes. That is what helps a community grow. NOT tax-exempt churches, schools, etc. etc., all managed by the same piss ant group of sock puppets with nothing better to do than whine about ever-increasing property taxes that become the burden of local hard-working, tax-paying, law-abiding proprietors.
As much as I would love to sit here and explain reality to you, there is an election coming up and I have miles to go before I sleep.
Seeya round town, Moscow.
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
"We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The college students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
- Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
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From: g. crabtree [mailto:jampot at roadrunner.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 7:26 AM
To: Tom Hansen; 'Pat Kraut'; 'vision2020'
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] principals of Developers of the Palouse LLC
Question, th
Of all the property in the central business district, what percent is owned by CC? One percent? Maybe two?
Lets follow your query to its logical end. CC owns fifty to sixty percent of the CBD. So what? Please don't fall back on the property tax issue since we all know that church property, used for church purposes will be tax exempt no matter where it is, downtown or elsewhere. If it's owned by the church or its members and used for commercial purposes it will be taxed the same as any other parcel.
With this being the case, why would it matter if they were to own every square inch of downtown Moscow? What exactly would be the down side? The maddening rectal itch you might receive from such a turn of events really doesn't count.
g
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Hansen
To: 'Pat Kraut' ; 'vision2020'
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 6:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] principals of Developers of the Palouse LLC
Question, PK –
Of ALL the churches of ALL the countries throughout the world, which ONE owns (and is buying up) property in the central business district of Moscow, Idaho?
Seeya round town, Moscow.
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
“I’ll just speak for our church, in Christ Church. If I found out that a member of our church or a church officer was lying to non-believers in the community, as a way to get by or protect themself or protect his reputation, yes, he’d be disciplined.”
- Doug Wilson (January 31, 2007)
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From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Pat Kraut
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 10:19 PM
To: vision2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] principals of Developers of the Palouse LLC
And, I would ask if you are aware of how much property is owned by groups or individuals in this area that have nothing to do with CC? The catholic church? The Mormons? The whoever?? This is persecution of one group against whom you have a personal vendetta and has nothing to do with the community as a whole...get over it! 07 11:45 AM
------------------------------------------------------------------
=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
----------------------------------------------------------------------
=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
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