[Vision2020] principals of Developers of the Palouse LLC
J Ford
privatejf32 at hotmail.com
Sun Sep 16 18:01:30 PDT 2007
Are you purposefully being dumb? If and when CC claims either educational or religious use for a building - there goes the neighborhood taxes.
Gawd, get a hint, wouldya!?
J :]
From: jampot at roadrunner.com
To: kjajmix1 at msn.com; london at moscow.com; thansen at moscow.com; pkraut at moscow.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 16:26:08 -0700
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] principals of Developers of the Palouse LLC
They may be clear but they are most certainly
incorrect. For example, a property in the CDB valued at one million
dollars generates the same tax revenue as a million dollar property anywhere
else in Moscow. The notion that if a given entity is prevented from
acquiring an high dollar value building in the CBD they will make do with a
tar paper shack somewhere else in Moscow, there by saving the city from losing
tax monies is not sound reasoning. If a group wants a highly visible and
desirable location and is willing to pay for it, the effect on the cities
coffers will be identical irrespective of whether the land is downtown or
elsewhere.
And a side note to Keely Emerinemix: My trust is not
something you will be experiencing anytime soon. I couldn't agree with you any
more vigorously that my arguments don't require any terrific effort to grasp.
It's just that there seems to no shortage of people who don't. If my efforts in
making myself plain come across as unpleasant, my apologies. However,
a lecture from you on the topic of "snottiness" is
remarkably similar to being chided on matters of public decorum by Paris Hilton,
Lindsay Lohan, or Brittney Spears., Forgive me if I only afford it the
consideration it's due.
g
----- Original Message -----
From:
keely emerinemix
To: Bill London ; g.
crabtree ; Tom Hansen ; 'Pat Kraut' ; 'vision2020'
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 3:35
PM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] principals of
Developers of the Palouse LLC
Thanks, Bill, for the clarity of your comments. And a
side note to Gary Crabtree:
Trust me on this one. There's no one
on Vision who, in criticizing Christ Church and its relations with the
community, needs you to "slow it way down" so that they can grasp your
arguments. Believe me, your points are not so complex as to require
terrific effort in grasping them, and they're not cogent or correct enough for
any of us to have to work real hard in refuting them. You might find
civil discourse a bit taxing, but I regret that snottiness seems to come so
easily for you.
One thing I've learned in my life is that people
who disagree with me are not automatically stupid, and people who agree with
me are not automatically brilliant. Those who fail to see that, however,
aren't automatically anything, but damned if they don't somehow end up
sounding like the former.
Coincidence? I think
not.
keely
From: london at moscow.com
To: jampot at roadrunner.com; thansen at moscow.com;
pkraut at moscow.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 14:14:48
-0700
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] principals of Developers of the Palouse
LLC
The Christ Church leadership is committed to
buying downtown property for "strategic" (Doug Wilson's word) or "political"
(my word) reasons, not religious ones. The church wants to take over
downtown.
Downtown property (Central Business District)
may be taxed at a common rate with other properties, but each individual
downtown property is more valuable (and thus pays more property tax) than
similar parcels located elsewhere. So, when those downtown parcels are
bought by Christ Church, Moscow takes a big hit in revenue.
Diluting the Central Business District with
churches and schools (as is the Christ Church plan) creates a less vibrant
downtown with fewer businesses and many more parking problems.
BL
-----
Original Message -----
From:
g.
crabtree
To:
Tom
Hansen ; 'Pat Kraut' ; 'vision2020'
Sent:
Sunday, September 16, 2007 1:26 PM
Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] principals of Developers of the Palouse LLC
OK t, I'll try this one last time and
slow it way down for you. We can't be taking "the next step" when it's
clear that lesson one has not been properly integrated.
1. Property used for church related
activities will be tax exempt whether it's downtown, mid-town, or on
the outskirts of our little burg.
2. Property in the CBD is not taxed at a
different rate than property anywhere else. The tax loss is the same
whether it's downtown, mid-town, or on the outskirts of our little
burg.
3. Property owned by a church that
is NOT used for church related activities IS taxed, just the same as
all other similar properties such as the others that are downtown,
mid-town, or on the outskirts of our little burg. A prime example of
this would be the space occupied by the restaurant in the NSA
building.
4. Property owned by church members that is
not used for church related activities is taxed, just the same as all
other similar properties such as the others that are downtown, mid-town,
or on the outskirts of our little burg. Examples of this
would include Bucer's, Hall Closet, and the former Goodwill location.
All owned by local hard working, tax paying, law abiding
citizens.
5. Having dozens of under utilized buildings
is an expense that no small church can afford. Simply from a maintenance
stand point it would make no sense to have them lay fallow. This
should calm your fears that a local ministry will buy up all of the CBD
and eliminate Moscow's tax base.
Thank you for your time, you may now go
back to posting photos of the same signs we all drive past every
day.
g
-----
Original Message -----
From:
Tom
Hansen
To:
'g.
crabtree' ; 'Pat Kraut' ; 'vision2020'
Sent:
Saturday, September 15, 2007 7:56 AM
Subject:
RE: [Vision2020] principals of Developers of the Palouse LLC
Very, very
good, g –
Now, let’s move
on to the next step, ok?
The key word in
central business district is BUSINESS. And, yes, I am going to “fall
back” (as you say) on the “T” word (taxes).
Businesses
located in the central business district paying taxes. That is
what helps a community grow. NOT tax-exempt churches, schools,
etc. etc., all managed by the same piss ant group of sock puppets with
nothing better to do than whine about ever-increasing property taxes
that become the burden of local hard-working, tax-paying, law-abiding
proprietors.
As much as I
would love to sit here and explain reality to you, there is an election
coming up and I have miles to go before I sleep.
Seeya round town,
Moscow.
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
"We're a town of about
23,000 with 10,000 college students. The college students are not very
active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
- Dale Courtney
(March 28, 2007)
From:
g. crabtree [mailto:jampot at roadrunner.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007
7:26 AM
To: Tom Hansen;
'Pat Kraut'; 'vision2020'
Subject: Re: [Vision2020]
principals of Developers of the Palouse LLC
Question,
th
Of all the property in the
central business district, what percent is owned by CC? One percent?
Maybe two?
Lets follow your query to
its logical end. CC owns fifty to sixty percent of the CBD. So what?
Please don't fall back on the property tax issue since we all know that
church property, used for church purposes will be tax exempt no matter
where it is, downtown or elsewhere. If it's owned by the church or
its members and used for commercial purposes it will be taxed the same
as any other parcel.
With this being the case,
why would it matter if they were to own every square inch of downtown
Moscow? What exactly would be the down side? The maddening rectal itch
you might receive from such a turn of events really doesn't
count.
g
----- Original Message
-----
From:
Tom
Hansen
To:
'Pat
Kraut' ; 'vision2020'
Sent:
Saturday, September 15, 2007 6:50 AM
Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] principals of Developers of the Palouse
LLC
Question, PK
–
Of ALL the
churches of ALL the countries throughout the world, which ONE owns
(and is buying up) property in the central business district of
Moscow, Idaho?
Seeya round town,
Moscow.
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
“I’ll just speak for
our church, in Christ Church. If I found out that a member of
our church or a church officer was lying to non-believers in the
community, as a way to get by or protect themself or protect his
reputation, yes, he’d be disciplined.”
- Doug Wilson (January
31, 2007)
From:
vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of Pat
Kraut
Sent: Friday,
September 14, 2007 10:19 PM
To: vision2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020]
principals of Developers of the Palouse LLC
And, I would ask if you
are aware of how much property is owned by groups or individuals in
this area that have nothing to do with CC? The catholic church? The
Mormons? The whoever?? This is persecution of one group against whom
you have a personal vendetta and has nothing to do with the
community as a whole...get over it! 07 11:45
AM
=======================================================
List
services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the
communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
-----
Original Message -----
From:
Tom
Hansen
To:
'g.
crabtree' ; 'Pat Kraut' ; 'vision2020'
Sent:
Saturday, September 15, 2007 7:56 AM
Subject:
RE: [Vision2020] principals of Developers of the Palouse LLC
Very, very
good, g –
Now, let’s move
on to the next step, ok?
The key word in
central business district is BUSINESS. And, yes, I am going to “fall
back” (as you say) on the “T” word (taxes).
Businesses
located in the central business district paying taxes. That is
what helps a community grow. NOT tax-exempt churches, schools,
etc. etc., all managed by the same piss ant group of sock puppets with
nothing better to do than whine about ever-increasing property taxes
that become the burden of local hard-working, tax-paying, law-abiding
proprietors.
As much as I
would love to sit here and explain reality to you, there is an election
coming up and I have miles to go before I sleep.
Seeya round town,
Moscow.
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
"We're a town of about
23,000 with 10,000 college students. The college students are not very
active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
- Dale Courtney
(March 28, 2007)
From:
g. crabtree [mailto:jampot at roadrunner.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007
7:26 AM
To: Tom Hansen;
'Pat Kraut'; 'vision2020'
Subject: Re: [Vision2020]
principals of Developers of the Palouse LLC
Question,
th
Of all the property in the
central business district, what percent is owned by CC? One percent?
Maybe two?
Lets follow your query to
its logical end. CC owns fifty to sixty percent of the CBD. So what?
Please don't fall back on the property tax issue since we all know that
church property, used for church purposes will be tax exempt no matter
where it is, downtown or elsewhere. If it's owned by the church or
its members and used for commercial purposes it will be taxed the same
as any other parcel.
With this being the case,
why would it matter if they were to own every square inch of downtown
Moscow? What exactly would be the down side? The maddening rectal itch
you might receive from such a turn of events really doesn't
count.
g
----- Original Message
-----
From:
Tom
Hansen
To:
'Pat
Kraut' ; 'vision2020'
Sent:
Saturday, September 15, 2007 6:50 AM
Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] principals of Developers of the Palouse
LLC
Question, PK
–
Of ALL the
churches of ALL the countries throughout the world, which ONE owns
(and is buying up) property in the central business district of
Moscow, Idaho?
Seeya round town,
Moscow.
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
“I’ll just speak for
our church, in Christ Church. If I found out that a member of
our church or a church officer was lying to non-believers in the
community, as a way to get by or protect themself or protect his
reputation, yes, he’d be disciplined.”
- Doug Wilson (January
31, 2007)
From:
vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of Pat
Kraut
Sent: Friday,
September 14, 2007 10:19 PM
To: vision2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020]
principals of Developers of the Palouse LLC
And, I would ask if you
are aware of how much property is owned by groups or individuals in
this area that have nothing to do with CC? The catholic church? The
Mormons? The whoever?? This is persecution of one group against whom
you have a personal vendetta and has nothing to do with the
community as a whole...get over it! 07 11:45
AM
=======================================================
List
services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the
communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
=======================================================
List
services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the
communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
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