[Vision2020] Sub-minimum wage

Sat Oct 27 15:25:28 PDT 2007

This could well be the oddest post I have ever responded to.

The disposition of the bet is clear. Mr. Hansen knows it, Mr. Arnold knows it, the list in its majority knows it. Since you are indicating a willingness to negotiate your own opinion on the matter, you must know it as well. Did you truly imagine that I might have had any strong feelings with regard to the wagers outcome? Really?

g

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Campbell" <joekc at adelphia.net>
To: "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
Cc: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Sub-minimum wage

I responded to Donovan but neglected to hit 'reply all' so it is stuck in his mailbox.

The main point of that post concerns your quote:

"To belittle is to insult no matter how you slice it." -- Gary Crabtree

I think you're forced with a dilemma. Either you admit that the GMA is the party of hate 
or you admit that Donovan did not win the bet.

If, as you suggest, belittling is insulting, then you insult people regularly. In every one of 
your posts you belittle. At least this much is true: In every one of your posts to me, you 
belittle me. Even in this post, where you're nice-on-the-whole, you throw in a 'Mr. 
Campbell.' I've told you on a number of occasions that I don’t like that label yet you 
persist. Maybe I'm soft and 'Mr. Campbell' isn't an insult. But there is no question that 
you belittle me by calling me 'Mr. Campbell' and by your general comments about my 
job as a philosopher -- which is really a criticism of the academy as a whole. If making 
fun of someone's name and someone’s job is not belittling, I'm not sure what is.

If belittling is insulting, then you insult on an everyday basis. Given that you accept the 
quote above, you seem to think insulting is fine, acceptable behavior. And so do the other 
GMA candidates and members. None of them have mentioned that insulting my job, 
calling me by a name that I don't like is insulting and beyond bounds. Thus, the GMA 
thinks that it is fine to insult people as long as they don't share their political views. 

This is just the politics of hate. If what you say above is correct, then the GMA endorses 
the politics of hate -- the politics of Wilson, etc.

The choice is yours. Either what Hansen says was an insult, because it was belittling, and 
Donovan wins the bet AND the GMA practices the politics of hate. Or what you said 
was wrong, belittling is not insulting, and Donovan has not yet won the bet.

The choice is yours.

Best, Joe

---- "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote: 

=============
But someone as rude and insulting as Mr. Campbell does? I guess there's no standard like a double standard.

But enough of this fractious back and forth, in the spirit of reasoned discourse as exemplified by Mr. Harkins and Mr. Livingston, I suggest that we abandon searching for differences and identify the small areas where our thoughts overlap. It appears that at the very least we are in agreement that the post that kicked off this "discussion" did contain a gratuitous insult to Mr. Arnold. From such an insignificant seed may future understanding blossom!

g
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Campbell" <joekc at adelphia.net>
To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 11:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Sub-minimum wage

> Someone who is as rude and insulting as Crabtree has no right lecturing 
> others. That was the point.
> 
> --
> Joe Campbell
> 
> "To belittle is to insult no matter how you slice it." -- Gary Crabtree
> 
> ---- Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> 
> =============
> Joe,
>   
>  I think you are missing Gary's point. Hansen made an bet he would not insult people anymore. Gary never made that agreement. 
>   
>  Best,
>   
>  Donovan
>   
>  Joe Campbell <joekc at adelphia.net> wrote:
>  I just love how Crabtree is so quick to note insults coming from his opponents 
> but so blind when he delivers them himself!
> 
> The constant application of such double-standards and lack of self-awareness 
> from the NSA/CC/GMA crowd makes me sick.
> 
> Joe Campbell
> 
> ------------------------------ 
> 
> Message: 2 
> Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 07:32:44 -0700 
> From: "g. crabtree" 
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Sub-minimum wage 
> To: "Tom Hansen" , , 
> "'Donovan Arnold'" 
> Message-ID: <03a901c81713$e8b8c5e0$6401a8c0 at gmc> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" 
> 
> Wiggle & squirm. An insult doesn't have 
> to be something as blatant as "Gary, you 
> ignorant slut..." To belittle is to insult 
> no matter how you slice it. Don't worry, 
> I don't think that anyone reading this 
> will be surprised by your evasion. The 
> surprise would have been had you not. 
> 
> g 
> 
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