[Vision2020] Water Concern?
Mark Solomon
msolomon at moscow.com
Sat Oct 20 12:18:07 PDT 2007
Matt,
For better or worse, when embarking on a
multi-million dollar project that will require
broad citizen support to pay for, it pays to have
all your ducks in a row before moving forward to
spend the big bucks. That's one of the reasons
why I've been pushing for development of
alternative water sources for over a decade now:
it takes time, lots of it, to bring such a large
project to completion. Hopefully we'll be there
before the Wanapum wells go into free fall 15-20
years from now if they follow the historical
pattern.
Not that I want to make this a political issue
but it took electing several new people to
Council and a new mayor before the issue made it
to the Council agenda. It wasn't for my lack of
trying: I sat down with Marshall three times to
try to convince him to push it as well as several
no-departed council members. Going back further,
I brought the idea to Paul Agidius as well. So,
you might see why I am understandably concerned
about a return to the same interests on Council
as represented by the GMA candidates. It is going
to take spending a lot of $$ and political
capital to develop another water source and I'm
not convinced the GMA endorsed candidates are
willing to do that.
Even when it comes to the easy things like
conservation that you and Gary rightly point out,
one candidate talked about how he wants to see
green lawns as the rule again. Without
conservation, and brown lawns for those who don't
xeriscape or take some other action on their
landscaping, the crisis point will get even
closer than my forecast of 15-20 years.
m.
At 11:57 AM -0700 10/20/07, Matt Decker wrote:
>Mark,
>
>Yes Mark I do recall you mentioning that the
>city allocated I believe 30k for this. A great
>step. I am curious though how many more studies
>will come before the resevoir is built. 10 year?
>20?
>
>We all know that everything costs money. Doesn't
>action speak louder than words. Lets quit with
>some of these studies and start using some of
>that money for our community. Such as paving all
>streets in Moscow and Sprinklers for these parks.
>
>Matt
>
>
>Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 11:04:55 -0700
>To: mattd2107 at hotmail.com;
>jeanlivingston at turbonet.com;
>privatejf32 at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
>From: msolomon at moscow.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Water Concern?
>
>Matt,
>
>I may know more about what's going on reservoir-wise than Bruce.
>
>The City Council authorized spending city $$ on
>a reservoir feasibility study, the necessary
>first step before engineering/design, over a
>year ago in the last budget cycle. The Council
>and the Mayor do not spend the money, the staff
>does. Staff, for whatever reason, is only just
>now getting around to preparing a request for
>proposals. Government is a slow beast. Staff
>have many calls on their time.
>
>Do I think that's a good excuse? No. I would
>have fired most of the city staff long ago if
>that was my job, but it isn't. It's not the
>Council's either. The mayor can fire staff, but
>only after adequately documenting a failure to
>perform to expectation. One senior staff member
>is no longer working for the city.
>
>As far as the parks go, I couldn't agree with
>you more, but again there is working reality.
>Wishing to make something happen doesn't make it
>happen. That takes $$ and manpower which again
>is a prioritization of resources issue largely
>controlled by staff.
>
>m.
>
>
>At 10:38 AM -0700 10/20/07, Matt Decker wrote:
>
>Bruce,
>
>I stand corrected on the MCA backing of a
>resevoir. I am glad to here it. Let me ask you
>this though. Why has your MCA backed mayor along
>with Stout, done nothing about it, other than
>the never ending studies? Why if the MCA likes
>Holmes, did you not endorse him. Why do members
>of the MCA talk a big game about water
>conservation, but yet we have numerous parks in
>town being watered by hose. Why don't I see more
>MCA members practicing xeriscape?
>
>Bruce I try to live my life in the middle. To
>listed to both sides. What I am seeing in Moscow
>is a bunch of name calling, but all I see is
>hypocrisy.
>
>Matt
>
>
>Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 10:01:33 -0700
>From: jeanlivingston at turbonet.com
>To: mattd2107 at hotmail.com; privatejf32 at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Water Concern?
>
>Matt, I'm surprised to hear you repeating
>falsehoods; usually you have been fair about
>things and not so blind politically as to make
>such obviously false and uninformed comments.
>Allow me to correct your erroneous statement
>that "MCA conservationists [yes, you are correct
>in calling us "conservationists"] don't like it
>[a proposal to build a reservoir]."
>
>Here is what the MCA web site,
><http://www.moscowcivic.org/>http://www.moscowcivic.org/ , says
>about our position on water: we support a
>reservoir, fifth paragraph of text under "What
>the MCA Stands For."
>
>"Supporting water conservation measures and the
>development of a city reservoir, while opposing
>injection of our aquifers, thereby protecting
>our diminishing aquifers while providing
>renewable water resources to support growth in
>Moscow."
>
>Further, !
><http://www.moscowcivic.org/communityissues/watersolutions.html>http://www.moscowcivic.org/communityissues/watersolutions.html ,
>our Water Solutions page says this:
>
>"Water issues are critical ones for the future
>of our community in both Moscow and the entire
>Palouse region. The Moscow Civic Association is
>seeking to be a leader in trying to identify
>potential solutions to our complex water problem
>by hosting public forums on the topic and
>continuing to serve as a facilitator to maintain
>public awareness and pressure on public
>officials to meaningfully address this problem.
>Conservation of our limited water supplies, and
>perhaps even bolder initiatives (such as
>potentially building a reservoir) are all things
>we must consider if we are to preserve the water
>we need for public and business use in our
>community."
>
>Moreover, our "Water Solutions" page inclu! des
>a variety of documents that tracks our efforts
>in this important area, and you will see that
>we, not the GMA, are the ones who have done
>something positive on this issue, including
>hosting a forum on whether and how to build a
>reservoir. The Daily News followed our lead and
>called for a reservoir feasibility study by the
>City in a link that is also on our "water
>solutions" page. The Council has since budgeted
>for and is working on a reservoir feasibility
>study. You can thank the MCA and our positive
>efforts on this for that development.
>
>
>You are therefore also wrong regarding the
>incumbent candidates, who have supported and
>funded a feasibility study for a reservoir.
>They are working for it, too. Challenger Evan
>Holmes has expressly stated that the time for
>study is past, because no matter what, we know
>we have enough water "issues" to know that we
>need to pro-actively work toward a solution, and
>we ought to sta! rt socking money away in a
>capital account for use on whatever solution we
>ultimately decide to pursue, because it will be
>expensive.
>
>At the AARP forum on Friday, Walter Steed
>reacted to the brouhaha over the GMA candidates'
>reported differences on water that were
>expressed at Wednesday's Chamber of Commerce
>forum. I think one of Walter's suggested
>possible "fixes" for our water problem --
>pumping water from the Snake River -- is
>laughable in terms of feasibility and expense,
>but even if that's the direction that we choose
>to go, it is obviously expensive and we ought to
>be funding these water solutions now and not
>just "studying" further. Significantly, Walter
>did not express support for funding efforts to
>build a reservoir or pump water from the Snake;
>he proposed to study the aquifers more, before
>undertaking more serious efforts to fix the
>problem.
>
>The MCA has been the leader o! n this, and the
>GMA, perhaps begrudgingly, is slowly following.
>
>Bruce Livingston
>
>P.S. Bill Lambert is a good man, too, and I am
>glad that he also supports the reservoir
>feasibility study. I also commend Paul Kimmell
>and Jon Kimberling for their "Water Summit"
>efforts, as that valuable forum has been very
>helpful in educating the entire community,
>including the GMA and their candidates, and of
>course, the MCA's as well.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original message-----
>From: Matt Decker mattd2107 at hotmail.com
>Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 08:34:32 -0700
>To: J Ford privatejf32 at hotmail.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Water Concern?
>
>>
>> J,
>>
>> Its purified but not to the extent of potable.
>>Then you must run a separate line to wherever
>>you need it.
>>
>> I have brought up this idea but doing it from
>>a resevoir. No! t as much cleaning of the
>>water, just filtration. Some how our MCA water
>>conservationists don't like it. But people like
>>Lambert and the GMA DO.
>>
>> From: privatejf32 at hotmail.com
>> To: mattd2107 at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 20:53:40 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Water Concern?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> But would/is it worth the intial cost(s)? The
>>one community in Washington that I heard about
>>seems to feel it is....anyone know for sure how
>>this is even done and what the water quality is
>>like? I mean, ew! it sounds unhealthy.
>>Obviously, it must be tested and seen to be ok,
>>but - I donna know........
>>
>> J :]
>>
>>
>> From: mattd2107 at hotmail.com
>> To: privatejf32 at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 18:32:13 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Water Concer! n?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> J,
>>
>> Great idea but a lot of money.
>>
>> matt
>>
>> From: privatejf32 at hotmail.com
>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 14:50:11 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Water Concern?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> There are communities that are "re-using"
>>waste waters for things like watering of lawns
>>and in one community I know of, to recycle for
>>drinking water. Not so sure about that one, but
>>at least there are systems out there that
>>attempt to do something besides just letting
>>the water flow on by and out.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> J :]
>>
>>
>> > Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 09:59:12 -0700
>> > From: lfalen at turbonet.com
>> > To: jeffh at moscow.com; jampot at roadrunner.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Water Concern?
>> >
>> > Thanks Jeff for your excellent post. Like
>>you said all of the candidates are good civic
>>minded people. Lets debate the issues not
>>personalities. Water conservation is a good
>>policy- water on odd,even days, in the evening,
>>take shorter showers and many other water
>>saving practices should be used. With good
>>conservation practices moscow should be able to
>>support economic development not just housing
>>and retail. Ways to capture run off should be
>>explored.
>
> > > Roger
>> > -----Original message-----
>> > From: Jeff Harkins jeffh at moscow.com
>> > Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 21:14:23 -0700
>> > To: "g. crabtree" jampot at roadrunner.com
>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Water Concern?
>> >
>> > > Gary, good to see your clear and concise comments making a
>> > &! gt; difference. Here are some of my observations.
>> > >
>> > > Ideologues are all around us in this region. They have no solution
>> > > to resolve the water issue (or much of any other issue) but they
>> > > follow the same tactic used since the creation of the MCA; fear,
>> > > intimidation, heckling and smearing are their tools. If you support
>> > > an organization like GMA, you are publicly chided for supporting
>> > > candidates endorsed by them. In other words, you don't know as much
>> > > as the MCA people and therefore your
>>voices and your opinions don't matter.
>> > >
>> > > Frankly, all the candidates for city council seem to be honest,
>> > > sincere and interested in doing what they perceive to be the best
>> > > things for the community. But when the actions of supporters and/or
>> > > candidates sense a challenge to their "vision for Moscow", rather
>> > > than debate the issue, they turn on the candidate and chide them for
>> > > their opinions. Wayne Krauss, Walter Steed and Dan Carscallen are
>> > > all honorable men. They have spent most of their adult lives in this
>> > > community. They have a right to be respected - for their views, for
>> > > their willingness to step up to the challenge of city council and for
>> > > their willingness to engage in honorable debate with candidates that
>> > > they don't agree with.
>> > >
>> > > In a similar vein, Linda Pall, Aaron Ament, Tom Lamar and Evin Holmes
> > > > are honorable folks. Most have spent a good portion of their adult
>> > > lives in Moscow and they should be respected for their willingness to
>> > > serve our community.> > >
>> > > To indict any of them for their opinions and views on a topic simply
>> > > validates that our citizens should not vote for the candidate the
>> > > indictors are supporting but should vote for the candidate being
>> > > scalloped. Issues and answers and policies such as the water
>> > > question are founded first in science. Let the science do the
>> > > talking - report studies, provide links to the scientific evidence,
>> > > establish the proposition of your hypothesis and then talk about
>> > > strategies for solutions. It is "very difficult" to resolve a
>> > > problem with rhetoric and finger pointing (Joe and Bruce, you are
>> > > encouraged to think about this very carefully).
>> > >
>> > > This coming election will say a lot about our community and about the
>> > ! > future we chart for ourselves. It is time for the hand-wringers to
>> > > move to the sidelines. We need decisive, thoughtful and forthright
>> > > leadership to guide us through the challenges that lay ahead. Will
>> > > we have a community that can support our children and the children of
>> > > our children? Will we be able to welcome new residents with a bundle
>> > > of opportunities that entices them to stay or will we winnow them out
>> > > - because they don't fit into our lifestyle? Will we have the type
>> > > of community that encourages entrepreneurs to come here and risk
>> > > their investment capital here or will we worry ourselves to death
>> > > over whether or not this business or that business is
>> > > "acceptable"? What I have learned from listening to the forums this
>> > > past couple of yea! rs is that even if Santa Claus wanted to move his
>> > > operation here, there would be at least a handful of people who would
>> > > object to that move.
>> > >
>> > > For my taste, it is time for a change in Moscow.
>> > >
>> > > At 07:02 PM 10/18/2007, you wrote:
>> > > >Conservation can never be a bad idea but using the water issue as a
>> > > >club to force other ideological visions on the community where they
>> > > >don't apply (big box ordinances for one example) is disingenuous. I
>> > > >don't believe that the GMA endorsed candidates are suggesting that
>> > > >we make a desperate attempt to suck the aquifer dry before their
>
> > > > >terms expire. To suggest otherwise is
>simply partisan politics at its worst.
>> > > >
>> > > >g
>> > > >----- Ori! ginal Message -----
>> > > >From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
>> > > >To: "'g. crabtree'"
>> > > ><jampot at roadrunner.com>; "'Joe
>> > > >Campbell'" <joekc at adelphia.net>;
>> > > ><vision2020 at moscow.com>; "'Mark
>> > > >Solomon'" <msolomon at moscow.com>
>> > > >Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 4:29 PM
>> > > >Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Water Concern?
>> > > >
>> > > > >g -
>> > > > >
>> > > > > You suggested that perhaps none of the
>>city council candidates have a firm
>> > > > > handle on the water situation.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > If this is true, w! ouldn't it be
>>better advised to err on the side of
>> > > > > caution?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Both Lamar and Ament cited PBAC as authorities on the figures
>> > > > they presented
>> > > > > yesterday at the CofC Forum. Krauss
>>cited "something [he] read somewhere"
>> > > > > and Steed simply wants to remove limitations and controls.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Your thoughts?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Seeya round town, Moscow.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Tom Hansen
>> > > > > Moscow, Idaho
>> > > > >
>> > > > > "We're a town of about 23,000 with
>>10,000 college students. The college
>> > > > > students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
>> > > > ! >
>> > > > > - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>> > > > >
>> > > > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > > >
>> > > > > From:
>> > > > vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
>> > > > [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
>> > > > > On Behalf Of g. crabtree
>> > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 3:33 PM
>> > > > > To: Joe Campbell;
>> > > > vision2020 at moscow.com; Mark Solomon
>> > > > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Water Concern?
> > > > > >
>> > > > > I assume the statement that includes "...regarding
>> > > > > the upper aquifer which if continued to be pumped at current
>> > > > levels could be
>> > > > >
>> > ! > > > in crisis as soon as 15-20 years
>>from now." is couched that way to leave
>> > > > > room for the obvious corollary?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Could be 50-75 years, could be 115-120 years? Could be we really
>> > > > don't know
>> > > > > for sure? Could be that Krauss, Carscallen, and Steed have as
>> > > > firm a handle
>> > > > > on the water situation as any of the MCA candidates do.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > g
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > >=======================================================
>> > > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> > > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> > > > http://www.fsr.net
>> > > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > > >=======================================================
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> > =======================================================
>> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> > http://www.fsr.net
>> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > =======================================================
>>
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