[Vision2020] A Caution
pkraut at moscow.com
pkraut at moscow.com
Wed Oct 10 18:03:04 PDT 2007
Ahmen!
> I am not opposed to any church soliciting new members, but doing it by
tearing down
another church strikes me as not being a very christian way to go about it.
> Roger
> -----Original message-----
> From: "g. crabtree" jampot at roadrunner.com
> Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 17:58:47 -0700
> To: "Christ's Avengers" christs.avengers.bowness.alta at gmail.com,
vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Caution
>
> > Christ requires earthly avengers? And from Canada no less. Kind of
makes me wonder and
NOT in the way that "Giselle" and the "avengers" would probably prefer.
I'd love to hear
from a real representative of "the fastest growing church in America" and
have them
explain the effectiveness of blowing into town and having anonymous shills
attempt to tear
down their competitors ministries. Is that how you've managed to grow at
such a prodigious
rate? Or, as is far more likely to be the case, do we have some of the
same old, same old
trying yet again to duplicitously further their little agenda. I'm
guessing the latter. Do
you guys really think that coming up with endless pseudonyms and
fictitious organizations
is fooling anyone? sadly, I guess you must.
> >
> > g
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Christ's Avengers
> > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Cc: askreallife at reallifeministries.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 12:42 PM
> > Subject: [Vision2020] A Caution
> >
> >
> > If Giselle McCourt and the brothers and sisters at Real Life
Ministries are really
serious about rooting out ungodly pastors, priests, ministers, etc, they
need to start
with the specious, unordained pastor of the horribly misnamed Christ
Church of Moscow,
Idaho, to wit, Douglas Wilson.
> >
> > Here are some links as starters that will give them some insight
into this driven,
dishonest, power-hungry, self-loving, conniver who dares to mock Jesus
Christ by
pretending to be His Messenger.
> >
> >
> > A thoroughly documented site by true Christians:
> > http://dougsplotch.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Another thoroughly documented site, although by a non-believer,
which never-the-less
offers a wealth of information:
> > http://www.tomandrodna.com/notonthepalouse/
> >
> > Of special interest on this site showing the ugly fruits of a
ministry hideously
departed from the True Way of Jesus Christ:
> > http://www.tomandrodna.com/CR_2005_02027/
> > http://www.tomandrodna.com/CR%5F2005%5F0250Wight/
> >
> >
> >
> > An extremely revealing site from a Christ Church Apostate:
> > http://poohsthink.com/
> >
> >
> >
> > Another well-documented website:
> > http://federal-vision.blogspot.com/
> >
> >
> >
> > Other websites of interest:
> >
> > http://cultists.blogspot.com/
> > http://cleaning-house.org/
> > http://ministrywatchman.com/?p=47
> > http://www.joshualetter.org/slavery/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Not to be ignored:
> >
> >
> > The archives of Vision 2020 where insightful comment can be found:
> >
> > http://vision2020.moscow.com/passpage.asp?ArchiveType=new
> > http://vision2020.moscow.com/passpage.asp?ArchiveType=old
> >
> > The letters of Keely Emerine-Mix, Rose Huskey, Saundra Lund, J Ford,
Michael Metzler,
and other referents found in those letters clearly expose the wayward
Wilson.
> >
> >
> >
> > Christ's Avengers
> > Bowness, Alberta, Canada
> >
> >
> > Some of our Watchwords from Jesus Christ, Matt 7:15 – 20:
> >
> > 15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but
inwardly are
ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes
gathered from thorns,
or figs from thistles? 17 In the same way, every good tree bears good
fruit, but the bad
tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad
tree bear good
fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown
into the fire.
20 Thus you will know them by their fruits.
> >
> >
> >
> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >
> >
> > Amen!
> >
> > Giselle's thoughts on this are much appreciated, and I sincerely
hope they touch the
hearts of those who have been shattered by "pastors" who would usurp the
autonomy of the
believer in her/his relationship with Jesus Christ. The Gospel is a
message of
reconciliation, liberation, grace, forgiveness, unbridled love and
humility. It is not a
means by which to insinuate oneself into the lives and consciences of
others. And while
community and fellowship are vital for the spiritual health of the
believer, the intimate
relationship of a man or woman to his or her Savior is the province of
their
Spirit-informed conscience, not a tool to further the controlling,
aggressive and
manipulative agenda of anyone who sees himself as the top rung of a
hierarchy the Gospel
intends to dismantle.
> >
> > If I were confronted with the message and behavior of the leadership
at Christ Church
and didn't know Jesus Christ, I would run away as fast as I could. It's
not a picture of
a savior I'd want to have anything to do with. But I do know Jesus, and
so I choose to
stand toe-to-toe in opposition to anyone who would pervert the Gospel and
misrepresent the
One to whom I owe my very heart and soul. I'm grateful for Giselle's
voice and pray it
will reach those who've been hurt by the tsunami of bigotry and pride that
is Kirk
leadership.
> >
> > keely
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
> > Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 09:46:42 -0700
> > From: giselle.wilson.mccourt at gmail.com
> > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Subject: [Vision2020] A Caution
> >
> >
> > Dear Friends in Christ and Neighbors of Goodwill,
> >
> >
> >
> > This short message is addressed to those of you from other area
churches who
attended the Launch Service of Real Life Ministries last Sunday and to
those that might
like to attend further services in order to see if Real Ministries could
become the church
of your choice.
> >
> > There are certain pastors in this area who look upon their
congregations as their
personal property. They covetously regard members of their congregations
as chattel to be
used as they decree rather than as souls to be lovingly guided into the
arms of Our Lord
Jesus Christ, and into the way of righteousness, goodwill, and eternal
salvation.
> >
> > These unholy pastors often resort to dire and to unchristian
measures to either
persuade or to force members to remain shackled in the ungodly, grasping
jaws of their
spurious ministries. Hence, I repeat the following from my first message
(also appended).
(If you know any trapped and struggling Christians caught in such
circumstances, please,
please help them by forwarding this message.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The choice you make of the Christian church to attend is a matter
between you and
God, only. You do not need to ask or receive anyone's permission to
change Christian
churches, nor do you owe anyone notice or an explanation if you do. It is
a decision
between you and God alone. If your pastor or members of your church
attempt to coerce or
to wheedle you in any way to remain in the grasp of their church –
persistent pressure,
guilt, promises, visits, telephone calls, threats, spying, extortive
tactics, feigned
sweetness, feigned concern for your soul, etc, – you are not in a church
which preaches
the True Teachings of The Lord Jesus Christ and who sincerely loves The
Lord Jesus Christ.
If any of the above unchristian tactics has been applied or is applied to
you please let
the good folks at Real Life Ministries know:
askreallife at reallifeministries.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Reminder: Great news! The fastest growing church in America,
Real Life Ministries,
is now in Latah County.
> >
> > http://www.reallifeministries.com/index.php
> >
> > http://moscowreallife.com/home.html
> >
> > Come, join, and start to be united with the community and God
through Our Lord
Jesus Christ.
> >
> >
> > Real Life Services
> >
> > Sunday, October, 7th 9:00 and 11:00 AM, 3148 Tomer Rd.
> >
> > Directions:
> >
> > From Moscow: Travel east on Highway 8. Turn right onto
Carmichael Road. Turn left
onto Tomer Road. Continue until you reach Palouse Hills Christian School.
> >
> > From Troy: Travel west on Highway 8. Turn left onto Lenville
Road. Turn right
onto Tomer Road . Continue until you reach Palouse Hills Christian School.
> >
> >
> > Your neighbor and friend in Our Lord Jesus Christ,
> >
> > Giselle McCourt
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > This message has neither been officially approved nor sent by the
Boards of
Directors of Real Life Ministries, Inc., Real Life Ministries, Ltd., Real
Life Ministries,
Cie. nor any member thereof.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ************************************************************
> > Previous Message
> >
> >
> > Dear Neighbors and Friends in Our Lord Jesus Christ,
> >
> > Please pass this message on to anyone it might benefit.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regardless of the church you now attend, for the sake of your own
eternal salvation
in Our Lord Jesus Christ, please take some time to consider very carefully
in your heart
of hearts the following questions.
> >
> >
> > Does your pastor unite the community or does your pastor divide
it?
> >
> >
> > Does your pastor respect everyone equally or does your pastor have
favorites amongst
your congregation?
> >
> >
> > Does your pastor disdain or ignore the worth of any or many of
God's children?
> >
> >
> > Does your pastor display way too much self-love?
> >
> >
> > Is your pastor much too fond of rich foods, fine wines, and other
voluptuary
pleasures?
> >
> >
> > Is your pastor ever vindictive, spiteful, punitive, or dishonest
especially towards
those with whom your pastor disagrees or those who have chosen in God's
name to leave the
clutches of his ministry?
> >
> >
> > Would you trust your pastor with your purse? With your real
estate agent? With
your wife?
> >
> >
> > Does your pastor hold wacko ideas like the antebellum slaves were
a happy lot and
lived in wonderful harmony with their masters?
> >
> >
> > At your pastor's rigid insistence is your church music full of
dark, chilling,
mournful words and music rather than raising a "Joyful noise unto the
Lord" as commanded
by the bible? Psalms 100
> >
> >
> > Has your pastor engineered the purchase land for a new church that
is not only too
small for a church and cemetery, but even too small for a moderately sized
church? Did
your pastor pay about twice the market value for the land? Is that land
now known as
"------'s Folly?"
> >
> >
> > Does your pastor demand, coerce, or wheedle so much tithe that it
hurts your ability
to give what they need and they deserve to your family and community?
Have you been asked
to sacrifice heavily and to tithe in God's name so that your pastor can
pursue his
ambitious, mostly personal goals?
> >
> >
> > Does your pastor's money management problems and love of his pet
projects that serve
him more than God often lead to calls for further tithing and sacrifices?
Does your
pastor try to con and to manipulate you by insinuating that the amount of
your tithe is
directly proportional to your love of Our Lord Jesus Christ, champion of
the poor?
Matthew 19:16 - 30, Matthew 25:31 - 46
> >
> >
> > Does your pastor pack the various parts of his ministry's payroll
with overpaid
relatives and kowtowing friends and their relatives, thus putting even
more stress on
church finances and leading to further demands for tithes?
> >
> >
> > Does your pastor look at new members more as a source of tithes
and straw and mud
with which to build his empire, rather than as souls to guide into the
loving arms of Our
Lord Jesus Christ?
> >
> >
> > Does your church have a hidden missing funds problem? If so, is
it possible that
some of those funds have disappeared into off-shore accounts of which your
pastor is the
sole signatory?
> >
> >
> > Does your pastor flout the civil law? Romans 13:1 – 7
> >
> >
> > Does your pastor ever direct members of your church to perform
illegal or sinful
activities or to ignore illegal or sinful activities done by church
members?
> >
> >
> > Does your pastor ever practice flagrant dishonesty in the name of
The Lord or in
claiming to do the work of The Lord? Is this something Jesus would do?
> >
> >
> > Are your pastor's theological views so far out that were recently
rejected by over
96% of a very large body of his fellow Reformed Disciples that carefully
examined them?
> >
> >
> > When vehemently defending his version of The Word of God as the
only "correct one,"
does your pastor sometimes appear to be mentally disturbed?
> >
> >
> > Is your pastor more interested in enriching himself and his family
then your pastor
is in exhibiting himself as shining, living example of the Life and
Teachings of Jesus
Christ, especially doing this by showing agape towards all, showing
humility, showing
disdain for wealth and its trappings, and showing great concern and
charity for all the
poor and unfortunate? Matthew 19:16 - 30
> >
> >
> > Does your pastor have a double standard when it comes to
adultery? When it comes to
rape and adultery in church schools?
> >
> >
> > Has your pastor encouraged divorces when it would benefit him in a
very personal
way, or encouraged divorces with unchristian vindictiveness to inflict
great pain and
sorrow upon certain critics of his actions and claimed beliefs?
> >
> >
> > Does your pastor ever appear to place himself on an equal footing
or above God?
> >
> >
> > Does your pastor place himself as a barrier between you and God?
Does your pastor
blasphemously style himself/herself as a necessary conduit between you and
God?
> >
> >
> > Does your pastor blame others for his shortcomings?
> >
> >
> > After having made a serious mistake in judgment does your pastor
own up to it, or
does your pastor sometimes claim he/she has a secret plan and the
congregation must
"trust" him/her that eventually all will be right?
> >
> >
> > Does your pastor keep important church information secret from not
only the
congregation, but from some of the elders and deacons too?
> >
> >
> > Does your pastor unchristianly operate your church like a secret
society in the
community rather than like the open arms of Our Lord Jesus Christ?
> >
> >
> > Has your pastor imported child molesters into the community? If
so, is it possible
that your pastor knew something of their particular sinful proclivities
beforehand, but
imported them anyway?
> >
> >
> > Has your pastor written a letter supporting leniency for a
convicted child molester,
one who did dreadful, despicable things to many different children, who
attended one of
the ministry's schools, and one who defiled the children of the church
family with whom he
boarded? If so, was that letter hypocritically contrary to your pastor's
past preaching,
and most important, blasphemously contrary to the requirements of The Word
of God?
> >
> >
> > Does your business or relationships with your neighbors suffer
because your pastor
has – with his outré views, unchristian actions, and harsh, in your
face, unchristian
polemics – caused many of the community to shun your business or avoid
yourself and your
family?
> >
> >
> > Does your pastor use divisive tactics and polemics to persuade you
from listening to
the words of your neighbors and dividing you from them?
> >
> >
> > Does the majority of your community regard your pastor as a crook,
clown, or perhaps
even an anti-Christ?
> >
> >
> > Does your pastor ever bring to mind the following passage from
Matthew 7:15 - 20?
> >
> >
> > 15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing
but inwardly are
ravenous wolves.
> >
> > 16 You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from
thorns, or figs
from thistles?
> >
> > 17 In the same way, every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad
tree bears bad
fruit.
> >
> > 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good
fruit.
> >
> > 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown
into the fire.
> >
> > 20 Thus you will know them by their fruits.
> >
> >
> > Does your pastor make up insulting, abusive names for those that
question his
bizarre views and actions? Does your pastor belittle his critics and
assassinate their
characters or take other vindictive, punitive measures rather than act
like Our Loving
Lord Jesus would? Matthew 5:38 - 48
> >
> >
> > Does your pastor attempt to coerce and to wheedle your continuing
church membership
rather than trust in your faith in God and God-given conscience to guide
you to make the
right choice of church to attend?***
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Does any answer to any of the above questions about your pastor
trouble you? Does
any answer trouble you especially considered in the light of the Teachings
of The Lord
Jesus Christ and your God-given conscience? If so, then perhaps it is
time for the sake
of your immortal soul to consider moving to a true church of Our Lord
Jesus Christ in God,
and away from a church that will only lead you away from the path of
righteousness,
goodwill, and eternal salvation.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Great news! The fastest growing church in America, Real Life
Ministries, is coming
to Latah County.
> >
> > http://www.reallifeministries.com/index.php
> >
> > http://moscowreallife.com/home.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Come, join, and start to be united with the community and God
through Our Lord Jesus
Christ.
> >
> >
> > Real Life Launch Services
> >
> > Sunday, October, 7th 9:00 and 11:00 AM, 3148 Tomer Rd.
> >
> >
> >
> > Directions:
> >
> > From Moscow: Travel east on Highway 8. Turn right onto
Carmichael Road. Turn
left onto Tomer Road. Continue until you reach Palouse Hills Christian
School.
> >
> > From Troy: Travel west on Highway 8. Turn left onto Lenville
Road. Turn right
onto Tomer Road . Continue until you reach Palouse Hills Christian School.
> >
> >
> > I hope to see you there.
> >
> >
> >
> > Your neighbor and friend in Our Lord Jesus Christ,
> >
> > Giselle McCourt
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ***The choice you make of the Christian church to attend is a
matter between you and
God, only. You do not need to ask or receive anyone's permission to
change Christian
churches, nor do you owe anyone notice or an explanation if you do. It is
a decision
between you and God alone. If your pastor or members of your church
attempt to coerce or
to wheedle you in any way to remain in the grasp of their church –
persistent pressure,
guilt, promises, visits, telephone calls, threats, spying, extortive
tactics, feigned
sweetness, feigned concern for your soul, etc, – you are not in a church
which preaches
the True Teachings of The Lord Jesus Christ and who sincerely loves The
Lord Jesus Christ.
If any of the above unchristian tactics has been applied or is applied to
you please let
the good folks at Real Life Ministries know:
askreallife at reallifeministries.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > This message has neither been officially approved nor sent by the
Boards of
Directors of Real Life Ministries, Inc., Real Life Ministries, Ltd., Real
Life Ministries,
Cie. nor any member thereof.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
> >
> >
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > =======================================================
> >
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
>
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