[Vision2020] This is the same CD Witmer...

Sat Nov 10 23:57:43 PST 2007

Gary --

My minimum standard for human behavior is not advocating genocide.
Your mileage may vary.

-- ACS

On Nov 10, 2007 10:27 PM, g. crabtree <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>
>
> If you are correct and " Christopher D. Witmer DOES believe that ALL
> homosexual practice, even in private, even between consenting adults, and
> even among people you might like, should be and eventually will be
> punishable by death or exile" then he and I disagree. I thought I made that
> plain in my previous post. And with pretty much every post I have ever made
> with regard to this topic. If this is what it takes to be relegated to
> "firmly in the category of the bizarre" then your thoughts on what a
> reasonable man might or might not want cut precious little ice. I guess I'll
> just have to learn to endure the ideological company of the jolly, wool clad
> wolves. Unlike you and yours, they don't demand my total ideological purity
> when it comes to the current politically correct group think.
>
> g
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: keely emerinemix
> To: g. crabtree ; Scott Dredge ; viz
> Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 6:14 PM
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] This is the same CD Witmer...
>
> As has been pointed out on this list to an almost exhausting -- but
> obviously not yet effective -- degree, NAMBLA is an organization that favors
> pedophilia.  Homosexuality is not pedophilia.  Pedophilia is a predatory,
> exploitive, sickening offense against children; the word means "sexual
> attraction to children," who are, of course, incapable  in any way of
> consenting to sex with adults.  Homosexuality is the condition of being
> sexually attracted to other adults of the same sex.  Its expression between
> consenting adults, regardless of whether you favor it or not, should not be
> illegal, merely subjected to the same reasonable restrictions that apply to
> heterosexual sex.  For example, what's OK in the bedroom is not OK on the
> steps of Anselm House.  The "who" is irrelevant, as it should be.
>
> By the same token, knowingly infecting someone with HIV is not a "homosexual
> crime."  It is a crime, and the transmission of the virus might be or might
> not be homosexual in nature.  It might not even be sexual in nature -- think
> urging a dirty needle on someone.  Assault with a deadly weapon -- the HIV
> virus -- is not a defining characteristic of homosexual orientation,
> practice, or psychology.
>
> I apologize if this sounds condescending, but when people naively toss
> around "that's a homosexual crime"-type talk and then confuse sexual
> expression with criminal behavior, a careful explanation must be made.  And
> those who refuse to acknowledge that yes, Christopher D. Witmer DOES believe
> that ALL homosexual practice, even in private, even between consenting
> adults, and even among people you might like, should be and eventually will
> be punishable by death or exile, will undoubtedly go to their graves
> believing that no one would be THAT extreme in their beliefs.  They would be
> wrong.
>
> Gary's continual need to de-fang the lupine practices and beliefs of the
> CREC types long ago ceased to be puzzling.  It's now firmly in the category
> of the bizarre, and I'd think that a reasonable man would not want to find
> himself there, caged among the wolves -- even if they look harmless and
> jolly in their sheeps' clothing.
>
> keely
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  ________________________________
>  From: jampot at roadrunner.com
> To: sdredge at yahoo.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 16:42:15 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] This is the same CD Witmer...
>
>
> Since it's clear it's an argument you desire, try this on for size. I have
> no problem at all with some homosexual crimes being punishable with death or
> exile (prison). Knowingly transmitting HIV/AIDS to an unwitting partner
> comes to mind along with pretty much everything NAMBLA stands for. I do not
> believe that it should be a crime to simply be homosexual and I doubt that
> Mr. Witmer believes this either. Furthermore, private consensual relations
> between two parties of majority would not meet the criterion Mr. Witmer set
> out in the post you provide reference to.
>
> I find it hard to believe that because I am not in favor of state
> recognition of homosexual marriage you can make the leap to my potentially
> being in favor of the mass extermination of all people of this persuasion.
> Is this a case of faulty logic or a desire to stir the pot? If the former,
> allow me to be clear. In my opinion no one should be executed or exiled for
> simply being a homosexual. If it's the later, let the games begin but please
> direct your comments to Mr. Witmer and feel free to leave me out.
>
> g
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Scott Dredge
> To: viz
> Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 10:01 AM
> Subject: [Vision2020] This is the same CD Witmer...
>
>
>
> > Carl writes: 'This is the same C.D. Witmer who has stated that, in the
> > perfect world envisioned by Mr. Witmer, citizens would be required to
> > take a "trinitarian test oath."  What a, uh, interesting fellow.
> > Carl Westberg Jr.'
>
> Yes Carl, he's the same one who salivates over the return of the days when
> gays will once again be executed.  Let's see Gary Crabtree try and defend
> this one.  Witmer's verbatim quote is "I most definitely look forward to the
> day when society changes its laws to be more in line with the Bible's
> teaching, so that homosexual crimes can be once again be legally punishable
> by death or exile."
>
> Full text at:
>
> http://right-mind.us/blogs/blog_0/archive/2006/05/16/43701.aspx
>
>
>
> From: kjajmix1 at msn.com
> To: thansen at
>  moscow.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 18:49:50 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Sat What?
>
> If I had the energy, I'd spend my evening playing the "is he more racist, or
> more homophobic?" game.  However, I'm a bit fatigued, so I'll just go with
> "he's a thoroughly disgraceful man" and call it a night.
>
> keely
>
>
> > From: thansen at moscow.com
> > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 16:22:00 -0700
> > Subject: [Vision2020] Sat What?
> >
> > "New Orleans is also overwhelmingly black, and blacks as a group have been
> > destroyed by multiple generations of dependency on government welfare,
> which
> > is already a form of theft at gunpoint. From such a position it is but a
> > small additional step to looting."
> >
> > - C. D. Witmer (November 2, 2007)
>
>  ________________________________
>
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