[Vision2020] This is the same CD Witmer...

keely emerinemix kjajmix1 at msn.com
Sun Nov 11 09:17:53 PST 2007


Witmer and his like have made it clear that all homosexual practice should be subject to exile or death.  You made it clear that you don't think he meant that.  You think he meant just other things.  Things like NAMBLA activities, or knowingly exposing someone to HIV.  That he does, in fact, mean what he says and the fact that you are a literate man tells me you cling to a bizarre belief.  And what is that belief?  That the problem here is Intoleristas, not the Kirk and its followers and brethren.  Abundant evidence, I might add, to the contrary.

You've learned well.  That's just what they want you to think.

Carry on.

keely




From: jampot at roadrunner.com
To: kjajmix1 at msn.com; sdredge at yahoo.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] This is the same CD Witmer...
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 22:27:22 -0800










If you are correct and " Christopher D. Witmer DOES 
believe that ALL homosexual practice, even in private, even between consenting 
adults, and even among people you might like, should be and eventually will be 
punishable by death or exile" then he and I disagree. I thought I made that 
plain in my previous post. And with pretty much every post I have ever made with 
regard to this topic. If this is what it takes to be relegated 
to "firmly in the category of the bizarre" then your thoughts on what a 
reasonable man might or might not want cut precious little ice. I guess I'll 
just have to learn to endure the ideological company of the jolly, wool clad 
wolves. Unlike you and yours, they don't demand my total ideological purity when 
it comes to the current politically correct group think.
 
g

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: 
  keely emerinemix 
  
  To: g. crabtree ; Scott Dredge ; viz 
  Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 6:14 
  PM
  Subject: RE: [Vision2020] This is the 
  same CD Witmer...
  
As has 
  been pointed out on this list to an almost exhausting -- but obviously not yet 
  effective -- degree, NAMBLA is an organization that favors pedophilia.  
  Homosexuality is not pedophilia.  Pedophilia is a predatory, exploitive, 
  sickening offense against children; the word means "sexual attraction to 
  children," who are, of course, incapable  in any way of consenting to sex 
  with adults.  Homosexuality is the condition of being sexually attracted 
  to other adults of the same sex.  Its expression between consenting 
  adults, regardless of whether you favor it or not, should not be illegal, 
  merely subjected to the same reasonable restrictions that apply to 
  heterosexual sex.  For example, what's OK in the bedroom is not OK on the 
  steps of Anselm House.  The "who" is irrelevant, as it should 
  be.

By the same token, knowingly infecting someone with HIV is not a 
  "homosexual crime."  It is a crime, and the transmission of the virus 
  might be or might not be homosexual in nature.  It might not even be 
  sexual in nature -- think urging a dirty needle on someone.  Assault with 
  a deadly weapon -- the HIV virus -- is not a defining characteristic of 
  homosexual orientation, practice, or psychology.  

I apologize if 
  this sounds condescending, but when people naively toss around "that's a 
  homosexual crime"-type talk and then confuse sexual expression with criminal 
  behavior, a careful explanation must be made.  And those who refuse to 
  acknowledge that yes, Christopher D. Witmer DOES believe that ALL homosexual 
  practice, even in private, even between consenting adults, and even among 
  people you might like, should be and eventually will be punishable by death or 
  exile, will undoubtedly go to their graves believing that no one would be THAT 
  extreme in their beliefs.  They would be wrong.

Gary's continual 
  need to de-fang the lupine practices and beliefs of the CREC types long ago 
  ceased to be puzzling.  It's now firmly in the category of the bizarre, 
  and I'd think that a reasonable man would not want to find himself there, 
  caged among the wolves -- even if they look harmless and jolly in their 
  sheeps' clothing.

keely






  
    
    From: jampot at roadrunner.com
To: sdredge at yahoo.com; 
    vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 16:42:15 -0800
Subject: 
    Re: [Vision2020] This is the same CD Witmer...


    
    

    Since it's clear it's an argument you desire, try this 
    on for size. I have no problem at all with some homosexual crimes being 
    punishable with death or exile (prison). Knowingly transmitting HIV/AIDS to 
    an unwitting partner comes to mind along with pretty much everything NAMBLA 
    stands for. I do not believe that it should be a crime to simply be 
    homosexual and I doubt that Mr. Witmer believes this either. Furthermore, 
    private consensual relations between two parties of majority would not meet 
    the criterion Mr. Witmer set out in the post you provide reference 
    to.
     
    I find it hard to believe that because I am not in 
    favor of state recognition of homosexual marriage you can make the leap to 
    my potentially being in favor of the mass extermination of all people of 
    this persuasion. Is this a case of faulty logic or a desire to stir the 
    pot? If the former, allow me to be clear. In my opinion no one should be 
    executed or exiled for simply being a homosexual. If it's the later, let the 
    games begin but please direct your comments to Mr. Witmer and feel free to 
    leave me out.
     
    g
    
      ----- 
      Original Message ----- 
      From: 
      Scott 
      Dredge 
      To: 
      viz 
      
      Sent: 
      Saturday, November 10, 2007 10:01 AM
      Subject: 
      [Vision2020] This is the same CD Witmer...
      

      
      > Carl writes: 'This is the same C.D. 
      Witmer who has stated that, in the
> perfect world envisioned by Mr. 
      Witmer, citizens would be required to
> take a "trinitarian test 
      oath."  What a, uh, interesting fellow.
> Carl Westberg 
      Jr.'

Yes Carl, he's the same one who salivates over the return of 
      the days when
gays will once again be executed.  Let's see Gary 
      Crabtree try and defend
this one.  Witmer's verbatim quote is 
      "I most definitely look 
      forward to the day when society changes its laws to be more in line with 
      the Bible's teaching, so that homosexual crimes can be once again be 
      legally punishable by death or exile."

Full text at:

http://right-mind.us/blogs/blog_0/archive/2006/05/16/43701.aspx



From: 
      kjajmix1 at msn.com
To: thansen at
 moscow.com; vision2020 at 
      moscow.com
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 18:49:50 -0700
Subject: Re: 
      [Vision2020] Sat What?

If I had the energy, I'd spend my evening 
      playing the "is he more racist, or more homophobic?" game.  However, 
      I'm a bit fatigued, so I'll just go with "he's a thoroughly disgraceful 
      man" and call it a night.

keely


> From: thansen at 
      moscow.com
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Date: Fri, 2 Nov 
      2007 16:22:00 -0700
> Subject: [Vision2020] Sat What?
> 
      
> "New Orleans is also overwhelmingly black, and blacks as a group 
      have been
> destroyed by multiple generations of dependency on 
      government welfare, which
> is already a form of theft at gunpoint. 
      From such a position it is but a
> small additional step to 
      looting."
> 
> - C. D. Witmer (November 2, 
      2007)


      
      
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