[Vision2020] Correct Rent for my House

Tue May 1 18:57:43 PDT 2007

Tom,

  You are confusing fair market rate with affordable. We do not have enough formation to ascertain the value of Nick Gier's particular rental property or your apartment. We do however, know what is affordable housing and we can fairly access that $1500 a month is well beyond an affordable rate for families where one or more parent is a full time student.

  Affordable housing is about 30% of a person's income, including w,s, and g. 

  Fair market rate is what the market will bear. 

  These are totally different criteria. We are not debating fair market values, but if the market is affordable for college families. 

  Moscow has artificially inflated housing prices because of the college and community leaders unwillingness to build enough houses. Moscow has the least number of housing units per resident in the state. 

  Best,

  Donovan

  "Why doesn't the Co-Op have a psycho welcome guy?" --Tom Hansen, April 27, 2007

Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
        v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}        st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }                Well, Arnold, if you are going to combine the rent payments, you might as well combine the living space (of the HOUSE), as well.

  That would amount to a 5 bedroom, 3 bath HOUSE for $1,500 per month.

  Question, Arnold:  What are the going rent rates for a comparable house?

  Tom “living in a 2-bedroom, 1-bath, $500 a month apartment” Hansen
  Moscow, Idaho

      “Anyone that buys something at Wal-Mart or Target expecting it to last doesn't know how to spend money.”

- Donovan Arnold (October 3, 2006)

---------------------------------

  From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Donovan Arnold
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 2:29 PM
To: Nick Gier
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Correct Rent for my House

    Nick,

    As I understand it, $600 a month for part of the house, $750 for the other half of the house is $1350 a month. Is my math off?

    Count in w,s,g, utilities, and it is easily over $1500 a month for a house rental. 

    A couple with a child or two going to college cannot afford $1500 a month. 

    When everyone, including you, divides their homes up into apartments to raise the rental value of a home to $1500 a month, you make it impossible for single families to rent an entire home.

    You have to rent to 4 to 8 people because it is not affordable for a one income family. 

    In order for $750 a month to be affordable, that would be $9,000 a year. Someone would have to net $30,000 a year in order for that to be only 30% of their income. 

    No statistics in Moscow support the claim that the average college student with children does not make $30,000 a year after taxes. 

    The math is pretty concrete. $750 a month is NOT affordable housing for a family in Moscow. 

    Want more math. If a college student works 25 hrs a week at $10 an hour. That is about $1000 a month net income. They get the maximum of $12,000 in loans, grants, and scholarships. That is still only $24,000 a year, assuming no missed work and they can find a job for twice the minimum wage.  

    Moscow has no affordable housing for college family units. Dividing housing to maximize rental income is the main reason why.

    Best,

    Donovan

Nick Gier <ngier at uidaho.edu> wrote:

    Dear Donovan,

You are not remembering my rent figures very well.  Families who have rented my 3-bedroom upstairs have found the $750 rent very reasonable, and students who have 3 bedrooms and 2 baths downstairs for $600 believe that they have died and gone to heaven.

By the way, the upstairs will be available for Fall semester and the downstairs will be available July 1.  Please spread the word and give anyone interested my e-mail address.

Nick Gier

At 09:33 AM 5/1/2007, you wrote:

  Nick,

I didn't attack your house. I was disagreeing with you charging $1500 to rent a house in Moscow. In order for that to be considered affordable housing a family would have to make $4,500 a month in net income. Those types of jobs are just not available in Moscow. Nor does a person get that much money in students loans, grants and scholarships.

What you seem to not comprehend is that when you make rent prices so outrageous you make life very difficult, if not impossible for couples with children that would like to get out of poverty by getting a degree at UI. 

Sure, $1500 is affordable for 5 or 6 college students. But single families have to pay that same market rate. This was my biggest challenge as a student body senator, was trying to find adequate low income housing for single families. It doesn't exist. The UI family housing is full, and the buildings are falling apart, not entirely safe, and have mold and health issues. 

That was my point, and why I am angry about the situation. It is completely unfair.

Best,

Donovan

Nick Gier <ngier at uidaho.edu> wrote:
  Good Morning Visionaries:
  I'm just as fed with Donovan's tirades as anyone on this list.  (My favorite attack was the one on my house.  I can defend myself, but house cannot.)  Objecting to his insults and bad manners is one thing, but diagnosing his mental state complete with labels is another thing, even if he has given his own diagnosis.
  I would very much like this thread to cease immediately.
  Nick Gier
    "Truth is the summit of being; justice is the application of it to human affairs."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson

"Abstract truth has no value unless it incarnates in human beings who represent it, by proving their readiness to die for it."
 --Mohandas Gandhi

"Modern physics has taught us that the nature of any system cannot be discovered by dividing it into its component parts and studying each part by itself. . . .We must keep our attention fixed on the whole and on the interconnection between the parts. The same is true of our intellectual life. It is impossible to make a clear cut between science, religion, and art. The whole is never equal simply to the sum of its various parts." --Max Planck

Nicholas F. Gier
Professor Emeritus, Department of Philosophy, University of Idaho
1037 Colt Rd., Moscow, ID 83843
http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/home.htm
208-882-9212/FAX 885-8950
President, Idaho Federation of Teachers, AFL-CIO
http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/ift.htm

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