[Vision2020] Relevance of some posts - WAS Christ is . . . .

[Donovan Arnold]

Latah L,
   
    Welcome to Vision, my name is Donovan Arnold, what is yours?

   
  Vision 2020 has devolved/evolved into something more than just a posted board for discussing Latah/Moscow's future. This is in part because the Internet and access to it has changed drastically since 1993. We still use it for the purpose of its original intent, but we also use it for more, and why not? 
   
  You will get attacked by people in here because you don't think like they do, and because you do not list your real name. Many people come on here, use a fake name, and then attack people. This makes people weary to respond to people that won't use their real name. Not using your name is considered rude in this local forum. If it were an AOL chat room it would be different. Imagine showing up for a town meeting and refusing to say your name, that is how you are looked in here. If you are not polite enough to give us your name, why should we be polite to listen to what you have to say? You got to think, this is a community of about 12,000 when we exclude the college kids, so most of us know each other or someone in our household. Half of our families have been here for 2-5 generations. No namers usually come just to attack and lay accusations and are looked upon with suspicion. 
  
 
  Best,
   
  Donovan

Latah Lounger <latahlounger at yahoo.com> wrote:
  Why are you personally attacking me simply because I'm using an anonymous handle? You don't have a clue as to who I am, and it shouldn't matter given my questions. Moreover, I haven't harassed or ridiculed any poster with my two previous messages. Are you always so cruel and demeaning?


Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:        v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}      st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }             LLL (Latah Lounge Lizard, not to be confused with Lois Lane) stated:
   
  “Does my IP address devalue the relevance of my questions? Yes, my IP address is a UI account. My understanding is that the UI is part of the Moscow and Latah County community. Am I wrong?”
   
  Independent of all else, I would have to say that the location from which you are posting doesn’t devalue the relevance of your questions.  However, coupled with your childish anonymity, No-Clue’s off-list game of “I’m Rubber, You’re Glue” has proven more pertinent.
   
  Tom Hansen
  Moscow, Idaho
    "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The college students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."

- Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007) 

      
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  From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Latah Lounger
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 3:21 PM
To: Vision-2020
Subject: [Vision2020] Relevance of some posts - WAS Christ is . . . .

   
  Hi Tom,
Does my IP address devalue the relevance of my questions? Yes, my IP address is a UI account. My understanding is that the UI is part of the Moscow and Latah County community. Am I wrong?

So, to get back to the essence of one my original questions . . . .

Why are messages that discuss the ins-and-outs of various religions (Islamic, Jewish, Christian, Agnostic?) relevant on Vision 2020 given the board's clearly stated objective?

Why are messages and links to cartoons bashing various Republicans, Democrats, Hollywood types, etc relevant on Vision 2020 given the board's clearly stated objective?

Why are messages that discuss (both for and against) pot-smoking grannies, illegal aliens, and gay marriage relevant on Vision 2020 given the board's clearly stated objective?

If one cannot tie their message back to the objective of the board (i.e., the future of Moscow and Latah County), then perhaps the individual should consider posting it on another board. For instance, there are thousands of message boards for political, religion, drug-related banter.

What if everyone posted non-Moscow or non-Latah County messages on Vision 2020? Perhaps I should request my friends in Engineering to post esoteric engineering-related messages having nothing to do with Vision 2020's stated objective simply because they live in Latah County and seek debate.

Perhaps I'm missing something and there is some sort of twisted relationship between the future of of Moscow/Latah County and the fact that St. Augustine made Theodosius do penance for the atrocities at Thessalonica? Am I?







Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
    Just for y’all’s edificaction –

     

    The IP address for the computer used by “Latah Lounger” was:

     

    129.101.114.147

     

    Any guesses where that IP address is located?

     

    64.126.190.123 ain’t much, but I call it home.

     

    Tom Hansen

    Moscow, Idaho

       

    "As more and more heathens 'choose' to not have children the number of Godly souls will increase. If the number of Christian births out number the number of Islamic births the battle will be over in 3 or 4 generations."

    - Doug "No-Clue" Farris (March 10, 2007)


      
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    From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Latah Lounger
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 12:52 PM
To: Vision-2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Christ is Our Commander-in-Chief
Importance: High


     

    Why is it relevant with regard to HOW MANY individuals were killed by such-and-such people of a certain faith. Isn't it the simple act of killing and the reason behind the killing that is of importance? Keeping scorecards of "number killed" by "faith/belief structure" seems a bit sophomoric if the ultimate issue is to address the REASON behind the killing. Is one faith more evil or despicable because it killed 2,000 more than another for the exact same reason?

Furthermore, what does Gier's post really have to do with the stated objective of Vision 2020: "Moscow Vision 2020 is an informal, multi-partisan group of Moscow residents formed in 1993 to encourage more public information and debate about the future of Moscow and Latah County." I fail to comprehend where Gier's post, as well as many other posted here, has any connection with Moscow or Latah County. It appears that several posters use the board as a soapbox to spout off their own partisan or religious beliefs, or, in this case, to develop a thesis, without connecting how their post relates to Moscow's or Latah County's future.

nickgier at adelphia.net wrote:

    Good Morning:

I would like to thank Gary Crabtree for the inspiration for this week's KRFP radio commentary.

Nick Gier

CHRIST IS OUR COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF:
RELATIVE VIOLENCE IN ISLAM AND CHRISTIANITY

I'm writing a book on the origins of religious violence and my thesis is that there has been far more religiously motivated violence in the Abrahamic religions—Judaism, Christianity, and Islam—than the Asian religions. Draft chapters can be viewed at www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/orv.htm.

A person on our local list-serve Vision2020 had this to say about relative violence in Islam and Christianity: 

"Up to the eleventh century Islam had a sizable lead. From 1095 to 1291 the Church picked up the pace and nosed ahead. It was neck and neck till 1834 and the end of the Spanish Inquisition. After that Allah's chosen made it no contest." 

There are more than a few problems with this summary history.

Islam could not possibly have had any sort of lead before the 11th Century because Christianity had a very good head start. Under Theodosius I, being a pagan was a capital crime, and even Christians were arrested if they practiced even the most minor of pagan practices. 

On December 25, 390, Theodosius ordered the slaughter of 7,000 pagans in Thessalonica. The British historian Hugh Trevor Roper called Theodosius "the first Spanish Inquisitor," and "the Christian monarch who introduced the world to religious totalitarianism." 

Bishop Ambrose, who baptized St. Augustine, made Theodosius do penance for the atrocities at Thessalonica, but he still proclaimed that "Christ was now at the head of the [Roman] legions." 

This reminds me of the sign outside a fundamentalist church in L.A., right after the invasion of Iraq: "Christ is our Commander-in-Chief." I'm assuming that our born-again president would have to agree with this demotion. 

Under Muslim rule Jews and Christians were generally asked to offer a special tax, not their heads. The slaughter of 4,000 Jews in Muslim Granada in 1066 was the exception rather than the rule, and Jews generally had much better lives in Muslim Spain than anywhere else in Christian Europe.

In 1099, men, women, and children were slaughtered indiscriminately when Christian forces captured Jerusalem. An eyewitness reported that the Crusaders "rode in blood up to their knees and bridle reins. Indeed, it was a just and splendid judgment of God that this place should be filled with the blood of the unbelievers, since it had suffered so long from their blasphemies." 

When Saladin retook the city in 1187, Christians were only required to pay a ransom and then free to return home. Some of Saladin's officers paid for those who could not afford it, and about 7,000 others were sold into slavery.

In Muslim India Buddhist and Hindus were, incredibly enough, declared "People of the Book," and the tax on non-Muslims was only sporadically enforced and even more infrequently collected. 

Most of the ancestors of Muslims in Pakistan, Bangladesh (especially here), India, Indonesia, and Malaysia freely converted to Islam. Areas in India where forced conversions were attempted are now the places where one finds the fewest Muslims per capita.

Some Mughal emperors ordered the destruction of Hindu and Buddhist temples, but local resistance and intimidated Mughal functionaries meant that relatively few temples were liquidated. Early Christian emperors were much more successful in destroying pagan temples, including the one in Alexandria that housed the finest library in the ancient world. 

Curiously, the Vision2020 post above ended Christian atrocities in 1834, but during the Taiping Rebellion, Chinese Christian armies were responsible for killing 10-20 million people between 1852-1864. I would hazard a guess that more Daoist, Buddhist, and Confucian temples were destroyed by the Taipings in 12 years than 600 years of Muslim rule in India. 

Some have claimed that the Taipings were not really Christians, but that is simply not the case. They took great pains to eliminate Chinese religious influences; they enforced the 10 Commandments at the point of a sword; and they followed the Bible very carefully, including the prophecies in the Book of Revelation.

Short of Osama bin Laden getting several nukes and using them, 
militant Muslims have a long way to go to match the historical Christian kill rate. 

Nick Gier taught religion and philosophy at the University of Idaho for 31 years. See his columns as the Palouse Pundit at www.NickGier.com.



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