[Vision2020] Follow up - Islam the religion of peace!

Tue Jun 5 16:49:25 PDT 2007

Deb et. al.

I'm with Deb also, in general terms.

The Earth and the biosphere is a reality.  We evolved on Earth, it sustains
us and we are absolutely dependent on it.  If life on Earth ceases to exist,
we do also.  To deny any of this, while insisting we should believe in some
super being floating out there somewhere that is the guarantor of our
salvation, that offers us a greater reality than what life on Earth offers,
is to be an agnostic towards what the facts of life on Earth have revealed,
while suspending agnosticism towards certain spiritual beliefs that cannot
be proved, that can easily be questioned just as well as evolution can be
questioned.

Odd, isn't it?  Many of the faithful in the USA will apply the full force of
reason and skepticism towards the science of the evolution of life on Earth,
but will not apply the full force of reason and skepticism towards their
belief in a mythical super being, when by some mysterious process they
insist they have a degree of absolute knowledge of said beings intentions
and powers.

Ted Moffett

On 6/4/07, deb <debismith at moscow.com> wrote:
>
>  Or: Gaia, as the Earth,  exists. She nurtures growth and change. Species
> arise from Her and evolve.
> I'm with Ted. We don't KNOW. We religious/spiritual/agnostic folk guess,
> we believe (or question), we create gods in our image (or deconstruct other
> beliefs), and, it is to be hoped, all of us try to live up to some sort of
> spiritual decency and kindness to others. When it is said and done, we each
> may KNOW, but not many come back to tell the tale.....
> Debi R-S
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Kai Eiselein, editor <editor at lataheagle.com>
> *To:* Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com> ; Donovan Arnold<donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> *Cc:* vision2020 at moscow.com ; Carl Westberg <carlwestberg846 at hotmail.com>
>  *Sent:* Monday, June 04, 2007 2:29 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Follow up - Islam the religion of peace!
>
>
> Christians: In the beginning, there was nothing, then God created the
> heavens and the Earth.
> (Some) Native Americans: Raven created the Earth.
> From China: Long, long ago, when heaven and earth were still one, the
> entire universe was contained in an egg-shaped cloud. All the matter of the
> universe swirled chaotically in that egg. Deep within the swirling matter
> was Pan Gu, a huge giant who grew in the chaos. For 18,000 years he
> developed and slept in the egg. Finally one day he awoke and stretched, and
> the egg broke to release the matter of the universe. The lighter purer
> elements drifted upwards to make the sky and heavens, and the heavier impure
> elements settled downwards to make the earth.
> Mossi (Africa):   In the beginning there was no earth, no day or night,
> and not even time itself. All that existed was the Kingdom of Everlasting
> Truth, which was ruled by the Naba Zid-Wendé. The Naba Zid-Wendé made the
> earth, and then they made the day and the night.
> From India: In the beginning there was absolutely nothing, and what
> existed was covered by death and hunger. He thought, "Let me have a self",
> and he created the mind. As he moved about in worship, water was generated.
> Froth formed on the water, and the froth eventually solidifed to become
> earth. He rested on the earth, and from his luminence came fire. After
> resting, he divided himself in three parts, and one is fire, one is the sun,
> and one is the air.
> Science: There was nothing.... and then it exploded.
> Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, which is more rational?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com>
> *To:* Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> *Cc:* vision2020 at moscow.com ; Carl Westberg <carlwestberg846 at hotmail.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, June 04, 2007 2:50 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Follow up - Islam the religion of peace!
>
>
>
> Donovan et. al.
>
> I have heard your argument numerous times from various sources.  It is
> specious.
>
> Assuming we do not know for certain what God, the Goddess, Gods or
> Goddesses, or various other possible forms of supreme beings or powers, will
> regard as the correct way of thinking, it remains possible that being
> agnostic will be regarded by the supreme being, beings or powers in our
> universe, as the most laudable and rational response to the evidence based
> on reason.  Therefore agnostics may turn out to be the chosen people, and
> the so called "faithful" will be viewed in a less than favorable light for
> their blind allegiance to dogmatic doctrines that are not supported
> sufficiently by evidence or reason.
>
> Ted Moffett
>
>
> On 5/31/07, Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > Carl,
> >
> > It is illogical to be agnostic. If you die, which you will, and there is
> > in fact a God, you best have worshiped him. On the other, if there is no
> > God, it won't count against you.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Donovan
> >
> >
> > *keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com>* wrote:
> >
> > And, as one of your Christian friends, I love you for that, Carl.
> >
> > No, wait -- I hate you.  I think.
> >
> > AAARRRRGGGHHHH!  It's so confusing -- who to hate, who to love, who to
> > pray against, who to call "brother" or "sister,"  who to make fun of.  If
> > only there were a guide . . .
> >
> > keely
> >
> > > From: carlwestberg846 at hotmail.com
> > > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 17:13:26 -0700
> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Follow up - Islam the religion of peace!
> > >
> > > The repeated attempts by certain Christian folk to convince me that by
> > the
> > > mere fact of being Muslim, one is evil, makes me all the more
> > convinced that
> > > to remain an agnostic who has Muslims and Christians in his circle of
> > > friends is the right choice. Carl Westberg Jr.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >  ------------------------------
>
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